Tell me about this sling!

[rayg]

It's the same length and configuration as the standard M1907 sling with two brass double hooks but it's stamped in two places, on each end, "Rock Island Arsenal" 1905.

Is it an experimental/trials sling or what? I can't find anything on it, Ray

THESE ARE NOT THE PHOTOS I PUT ON HERE!!!!!!!!!!!!?????...............

ALL PHOTOS HAVE BEEN REPLACED/CHANGED IN THIS THREAD SOMEHOW AND NOT BY ME.

[Fred]

There was a 1905 experimental sling that was 48" long. One is on eBay now advertised as a 1903 sling. I was told that it only had one claw though, like the longer 1903 (Rod Bayonet) Rock Island stamped sling. Could there also have been a prototype 1907 sling produced in 1905? The contour of the brass claw looks to be early.

[rayg]

Fred I checked the contour of the claw against several 1914 and 1916 dated 07 slings I have and the contours are about the same. but it does have a slightly wider bevel along the sides then the 07 claws more like the later TD and Krag claw slings. For sure it's not a earlier pattern Krag/TD sling shown as that has much narrower fingers. Me thinks it's the later Krag/TD type claws with the wider fingers and slight side/end bevels that are on the 05 dated sling, Ray

[Fred]

Yea, the claw appears to have the early bevel as seen on Rock Island slings. Does it have the raised rivets or are they flat?

[rayg]

The rivets are ground flat. I seem to remember seeing an other early sling dated 1905 but it had only one fastener. Possibly it was an early 1903 RB rifle sling before they went to two fasteners or else it was a later Krag sling. Ray

[rayg]

Just counted the holes and the sling has 16 double holes on the short end and 32 on the long end whereas the regular 07 slings have only 16 on both ends. I also checked my TD and Krag slings and they only have 16-18 double holes total.
There is also an inspectors stamp on the sling. Ray

[rayg]

It's been mentioned that may have been made from earlier slings but the only problem I see with using and/or combining other slings to make it is the long length has 32 sets of holes in it. No other earlier sling I can think of has that many holes. The TD/Krag slings have only 18-19 sets of holes total, musket slings less also. It seems that the sling maybe was originally designed that way with that number of holes or why else would they add that many more holes? In fact not sure why they would need that many holes. Ray

[Johnny P]

From Brophy's "The Springfield 1903 rifles":

"The Office of the Chief of Ordnance and Rock Island Arsenal worked up a plan to utilize various obsolete slings on hand at Rock Island to make parts of the new 1907 sling."

[Fred]

The rivets are ground flat. I seem to remember seeing an other early sling dated 1905 but it had only one fastener. Possibly it was an early 1903 RB rifle sling before they went to two fasteners or else it was a later Krag sling. Ray


Ray, that might be the 1905 Trials or test sling that came out after the 1903 sling. It's called I believe the 1905 sling.

[rayg]

Fred that might explain the extra holes as I can't think of any obsolete sling with that many holes, Ray

[Johnny P]

Holes can be added as needed.

[rayg]

Ok, here's the sling off the rifle. You can see the difference in the spacing of the holes. All the holes on the long strap appear to be machine spaced and punched so it was originally made the way it is and the holes weren't just hand added. I'm starting to lean a bit toward a Trials sling, Ray

[Johnny P]

The equipment at Rock Island that punched the original holes would have been used to punch additional holes.

This was before the days of the $500 hammers, and the military looked for ways to save money. Obsolete slings could be modified to the new Model 1907 pattern for 32¢ each, and according to Brophy this was done.

[rayg]

I checked the Krag/TD slings and there would be enough length of the sling with out holes in it already to re-use for the long length. But why not just punch the normal amount of holes if there were none already in it. Why that many holes unless it was intentional. Another thought, but probably way remote, but maybe it's a scrap piece that was used in setting up the punches and as nothing was discarded they just used it. It's the extra amount of the holes that create the question as no other obsolete slings have that many or that pattern of holes. I still lean a bit to a Trials sling. Especially with the RI stamp and date on each end to indicate Arsenal approval/done.
Here's another photo to show the different pattern of the holes, Ray

[rayg]

I tried measuring the sling length while it was on the rifle with little accuracy. But seeing it side by side with the regular 07 sling I see it appears to be about 2" shorter.

I think the sling being shorter then the specifications/dimensions for a standard 07 sling might lean even more toward it being a prototype/trials sling and not just a mixed parts 07 sling. Ray

[rayg]

In conclusion, and my opinion is in as much as there are no obsolete slings having the same number and pattern of holes as this sling has. Even if sections of older slings, like from the Krag/TD slings which have a plain length with no holes that could be used, the question remains, why weren't the same number and the same pattern of holes stamped in those sections according to the 1907 specs?
Also the sling is about 2" shorter then the 07 sling as well as the extra holes, also the sling has a different more squared off cut on the end instead of a more rounded end cut. And then there's the double RI and date stamps on the sling whereas the 07 sling has only one stamp. So in light of these factors I feel it is a completely different pattern sling and is most likely a prototype/trials sling which was made by adding an additional claw fastener, the 1903 sling had only one fastener, and adding additional holes. Eventually the holes were reduced and the length increased slightly, and it became the 1907 pattern sling. Ray

[rayg]

Just to clarify the two locations of the RI stamps. The stamp on the short strap, is stamped right next to the fastener as shown. But the stamp on the long strap is not stamped next to the fastener, but is stamped on the opposite plain end and about 10" in from the end and in the space were there are no holes. Ray

[Dick Hosmer]

How about a "custom" sling made for one of the Army rifle teams, perhaps for use in the back position? Apparently, when the sling was in transition from being strictly a carrying strap to actually becoming a component of the marksmanship program, a lot of latitude occured in how/where it was fastened to the rifle and/or wrapped around the firer.

[rayg]

Love these mystery items as they make good discussions. Dick, my take is that I think there's maybe too many changes from the early 1903 pattern sling to be just a special sling for the target shooters. But I'm sure you're correct in that the arsenal was trying to placate both the military and the target shooters. So I believe the arsenal put together a prototype sling to satisfy both by adding an additional adjuster/fastener to enhance shooting support and a lot of extra adjustment holes. Probably that many holes were found to be unnecessary and the number of holes reduced and the sling lengthened a couple inches and eventually all of these changes were approved and adopted by the army as the model 1907 sling. Does that make sense? Ray

[rayg]

Looks like all the photos disappeared and am unable to repost them or for that matter any photos, Ray