using vintage ammo

[trimmer99]

I'm new to the Russian forum and this question may have been asked in the past but here goes: I have some vintage ammunition for my newly acquired rifle. Some of it is marked late 30's to early 40's. Others are marked "Norma". Is there anything I should know about this ammo before firing it through my 1943 Mosin? Thanks in advance. Rick B

[Tuna]

Norma is most likely not too vintage as it's still being made today. If the ammo is in good shape then being from the 30's and 40's should not be a problem. Just have to clean your rifle as the ammo is corrosive except for the Norma which is non corrosive and reloadable.

[Brad in Idaho]

Tuna is correct, Norma ammo shouldn't be any problem at all. Save that brass. Vintage ammo should be fine also as long as it was stored properly. I recently shot some ammo from the 30's in an Austrian Steyr with no problem. I often shoot surplus from the early 50's in my Mosins. I have 8MM from the 30's, 40's and 50's that I shoot in Mausers all the time. Just remember this ammo will have corrosive primers and clean your rifle accordingly. Do a visual inspection before firing any surplus. Look for corrosion, neck splits or any other obvious defect. After firing, inspect the casings for cracks, pierced primers, etc. I have some Israeli surplus 8MM from the late 50's that looked fine but when I fired it I found 2 casings had ruptured in the chamber. I'm going to pull down the remainder of this ammo and use the bullets. Unfortunately I can't trust the boxer primed brass for reloading.

[trimmer99]

Some of the ammo had some corrosion on it, not much and not deep but still there, a green surface discoloration that cleaned up pretty easily with a bit of steel wool. Could this have weakened the casing and made it unsafe to shoot? Again, thanks for your help. Rick B

[Brad in Idaho]

Where is it from (country)? Brass or steel cased? Copper washed? The sticky on this page is excellent for identifying ammo headstamps.
Yesterday I fired a couple of Mosin's using some Russian surplus. Some of it was 1986 and some from 1950. One of the casings from 1950 had a small crack when extracted but caused no problem, the '86 was fine. It was copper washed steel cased. I fired a few rounds of Bulgarian ammo from 1953. Many of the spent brass casings had neck splits and one had a crack in the body. I had inspected the rounds before firing them and 3 had places on the brass that looked irregular, but not corroded or split so I fired them. One did have a small crack in the body when I extracted it but nothing unusual happened when I fired or extracted it. The neck splits caused no problem and are not uncommon in surplus ammo.

My worst ammo related experience wasn't with surplus, but with some Japanese 7.7mm that a guy loaded for me. Once fired Norma brass was used (my brass). I had a pierced primer in one round, then one case blew completely in half in the chamber. With both of these rounds I experienced heavy recoil, then neither wanted to extract. The one with the pierced primer was impaled on the firing pin, and the other came out of the chamber in two pieces. I pulled down the rest of these rounds. Luckily the rifle and I suffered no damage. I never found out what the problem was (suspect he used the wrong powder/overloaded it, or both) as the guy was out of business (big surprise) when I went back to his shop.

Bottom line is if you really don't feel it is safe, don't use it. There is newer surplus ammo still available.

[trimmer99]

Brad,

The ammo is in what looks to be brass casings. Most of the ammo not marked NORMA has VPT on it with what I assume to be the year eg 35, 36, 37, 44 etc. All of the vintage ammo seems to date to WWII or the years immediately preceding. Some of it is what I would expect to find in modern rifle rounds, that is, copper jacketed lead bullets. Others however (the bullet) are a uniform silver color. All this ammo came with my first Mosin, a Remington made for WWI but which had been sporterized and shot all to hell with no attempt to clean. Got it for $25 and sold it for about $60. I kept the ammo as I thought I'd eventually get another, better rifle which I have. Thanks for the info.

Rick B

[Brad in Idaho]

Follow this link to some pics of your ammo. It is Finnish. Unfortunately there is no evaluation of it as there is for some other countries ammo. I would expect the Finns made decent ammunition. Lapua comes to mind.

http://7.62x54r.net/MosinID/MosinAmmoID03.htm

[trimmer99]

Thanks for the link. I found the info concerning the Finnish origins on line the other night, but without the photos. I'm not sure if I want to shoot it now, not because of safety concerns, but for the fact that it's lasted this long, why not another 50 or so years.

[Tuna]

The problem with some Finnish ammo I was given was the powder has really started to break down. Some years ago I has some that looked to be in excellent condition. When I fired the first one I knew something was wrong as the recoil was much stronger then normal. I pulled a round apart and found the powder was bad and that the bullets weighed 165 grs. and not the 148 I expected. The cases looked perfect on the outside but inside they was starting to corrode. I late found out the person who gave me the ammo had stored it outside in a shed that baked in the summer and froze in the winter for over 10 years so that would explain the powder breaking down. Proper storage is key to using old surplus ammo.

[NuJudge]

Until the 1990s, I could not get 7.62x54R, except for very expensive Norma and very old Finnish and Russian captured by the Finns. Norma always was fine. The Finnish ammo was always fine. The Russian stuff captured by the Finns was not fine: most of it was dated in the 1930s, and it was copper-washed steel, which frequently gave case separations.

[joem]

I've shot turk 8mm ammo from 1943 and 1944. The QC on that ammo was poor. Charge varied by 3 grains and some of the cases had split necks right out of the box.