O.G.E.K. boxed cartouche. date of usage

[andy_ita]

hi guys
im trying to find information about this Ogden Arsenal rebuilt stamp.
it is a boxed one, so the inspector was Elmer Keith.

but what i need to know if this cartouche was a WW2 or a post war rebuilt mark

any help will help
thanks
andy

[Dan Shapiro]

Merry Christmas, Andy!

It would be post-WWII.

[Southron]

If I am not mistaken, that is the cartouche of Elmer Keith-the dean of hand gunners and gun writers for much of the 20th Century. Keith had many friends in the Ordnance Corps before and during World war II, and even though Keith was too old for military service then, he helped the "War Effort" out by working in the Ogden Arsenal.

I met Elmer Keith at the 1976 N.S.G.A. show and he was quite an impressive individual.

You can read his "on-line" biography here. He even mentions some of his accomplishments while working at the Ogden Arsenal:

https://archive.org/stream/Hell_I_Was_There_Elemer_Keith_Autobigraphy/Hell_I_Was_There_Elemer_Keith_Autobigraphy_djvu.tx t

[andy_ita]

Merry Christmas guys
thanks for the reply

on the Elmer Keith bio i found this

My mother passed away in 1940, just before
we got into the war. My father passed away
while I was in service at Ogden Arsenal in
1943.
he should be there at Ogden Arsenal till the end of the war.

my doubt regardint a 1903 A2 with a barrel 7-44 and Elmer Keith rebiuld stamp on the stock.

if Keith was in the arsenal from 43 to 45, so it is possible that the rifle should be rebuilt and rebarreled during the WW2 and not after.
this rifle have on the stock the greek marks. may i assume that the rifle could be rebuilt during the WW2 and sent to greek as lend lease program after the ww2 for the greek civil war (1946-49)?

[BlitzKrieg]

I own a OGEK stamped stock so I am not without interest in this Elmer Keith connection.

However, it is my understanding the OGEK is a rebuild stamp, and has nothing to do with Elmer
and I have read this many times over on CMP forums.

I'd like to be wrong on this , please tell me if so. That would be a great XMAS surprise.

[andy_ita]

Well Ogek mean Ogden Arsenal Elmer Keith

[Rick the Librarian]

The boxed inspection stamp was Elmer Keith; unboxed was E. (forget his first name) Klouser; I understood that OGEK was WWII.

[Fred]

I own a OGEK stamped stock so I am not without interest in this Elmer Keith connection.

However, it is my understanding the OGEK is a rebuild stamp, and has nothing to do with Elmer
and I have read this many times over on CMP forums.

I'd like to be wrong on this , please tell me if so. That would be a great XMAS surprise.

Elmer's cartouche was OGEK within a rectangular box.
Ed Klouser's stamp was OGEK WITHOUT a box.

[Randy A]

I own a OGEK stamped stock so I am not without interest in this Elmer Keith connection.

However, it is my understanding the OGEK is a rebuild stamp, and has nothing to do with Elmer
and I have read this many times over on CMP forums.

I'd like to be wrong on this , please tell me if so. That would be a great XMAS surprise.

All OGEK stamps, both boxed and un boxed are rebuild stamps, (including OG) that part is correct. Elmer Keith (the boxed OGEK) definitely worked at Ogden during WWII and that is very well doccumented. I don't recall seeing anything that ever contradicted this.
On another note, he may have had friends in the military, but he also made a few enemies. I believe in "Hell I Was There" he talked about pulling a .45 on an officer during a heated meeting with the Arsenal OIC. It's a good read, very interesting character.

[sdkrag]

It would not have to be a rebuild stamp. In Hell I Was There Elmer states that he inspected arms coming out of storage for service and approved them or sent them for rebuild. The OGEK in the box was simply his inspection approval stamp.

[Rick the Librarian]

Usually, I refer to these as "overhaul or inspection stamps", which I didn't do. Sdkrag is correct that they could be either.

[Randy A]

It would not have to be a rebuild stamp. In Hell I Was There Elmer states that he inspected arms coming out of storage for service and approved them or sent them for rebuild. The OGEK in the box was simply his inspection approval stamp.

For some time a few have claimed that rifles coming coming from storage (or passing through) that required no work simply got the Ogden "OG" stamp once inspected and went on thier way. Rifles coming from rebuild got the OGEK (inspectors initials) in traditional rebuild inspector/stamp fashion. I'd have to ask the experts but I'm inclined to believe this, it's been my understanding that original manufacture or rebuild required an inspectors initials on the finished product and not necessarily any firearms they did nothing to. Maybe JB can shed some light on it.

[Liam]

I found this list handy in the past: http://m1903.com/isstamps.htm

[BlitzKrieg]

Thank you.

Boxed is Elmer Keith

No box: the other guy

Ogden Arsenal regardless.

Good stuff, many thanks.