Two very early Rock Island 1903's rifles

[rayg]

SORRY FOR THE DOUBLE POST......It got confusing trying to post the photos one at a time using tinypic site instead of up to 5-10 at a time like you can with this forum but there's a problem with this site as it is not allowing me to post photos for now so I tried the other photo posting site to see if I can post photos here.


Here's my favorite two 1903's. The top one in the darker stock in the 1st photo is one of the first all correct period production RI rifles build in the first months of normal production. The lighter color wood was build up w/rod bayonet and 30-03 parts and issued out.For some reason I can not post photos using the normal site uploads for just seeing if these tinypic site photos will work, Ray

TOP RIFLE

http://i62.tinypic.com/15hczu0.jpghttp://i59.tinypic.com/2w50idj.jpghttp://i58.tinypic.com/2w6z1qv.jpghttp://i58.tinypic.com/dzxmqr.jpghttp://i60.tinypic.com/28k4xgm.jpghttp://i58.tinypic.com/96ymw7.jpg


BOTTOM RIFLE

http://i57.tinypic.com/2w2rksx.jpghttp://i57.tinypic.com/2us7wvr.jpghttp://i58.tinypic.com/mkkino.jpghttp://i58.tinypic.com/30lhwt5.jpg

[rayg]

Well I guess this site works for photo. The sling on the 07 dated rifle apparently is a m1907 prototype dated 1905. I had a thread earlier on this sling with the same photos but all the photos on the thread disappeared. Ray

Here's the sling compared to the m1907 sling on the bottom. Apparently they added a 2nd claw fastener and a lot of holes to a pattern 1903 sling. Later reduced the number of holes and added 2' more to the sling which then apparently became the M1907 sling. Ray

http://i57.tinypic.com/29uqc8m.jpg
http://i57.tinypic.com/2ylofo3.jpg
http://i59.tinypic.com/300bsz9.jpg
http://i57.tinypic.com/2u5g9w5.jpghttp://i61.tinypic.com/hsjm2a.jpg

[mhb]

is not so dark, in fact.
Brophy explains the origin of the sling which came to be adopted as the M1907: it was designed by a Col. Wright, of the Ohio National Guard.
As there were large quantities of earlier slings on-hand (and in order to save money), the Chief of Ordnance and RIA developed a plan to make them up into the 1907 type - at a cost of about 32 cents each. The initial order was in 1907, for 19,000 slings to be manufactured from obsolete slings on-hand, 'so far as practicable'. Eventually, 106,470 such salvaged slings were ordered to be made.
The sling which came with my correct, early RIA 1903 is double-dated: the rear strap (the newly-added part specific to the M1907) is marked by RIA and dated 1908 (as is the stock of the rifle), while the forward part is marked as RIA production of 1904, and retains one of the 'button holes' of the earlier pattern it was made from. The earlier part retains exposed rivets on the frog, while the 'new' rear strap frog has flush rivets.
The story of the sling is told on page 435 of Col. Brophy's book.

mhb - Mike

[rayg]

As mentioned, and I have Brophy's book and read that some first 07 slings have been made from earlier slings. But the only problem I see with that is that no other earlier and/or obsolete sling I can think of has that many holes in it. Even if sections of older slings, like from the Krag/TD slings that could be used, the question remains, why weren't the same number and the same pattern of holes stamped in those sections according to the 1907 specs then? It seems that the sling was initially designed with that number of holes or why else would they add that many more holes. It was also mentioned that maybe it was a 1903 sling altered/made up by the arsenal for target shooters. My take is that I think there's maybe too many changes from the 1903 sling to be just a special sling for the target shooters. But I'm sure he's correct in that the arsenal was trying to placate both the military and the target shooters. So I believe the arsenal put together a prototype sling to satisfy both by adding an additional adjuster/fastener to enhance shooting support and a lot of extra adjustment holes. Probably that many holes were found to be unnecessary and the number of holes reduced and the sling lengthened a couple inches and eventually all of these changes were approved and adopted by the army as the model 1907 sling. Does that make sense? Ray

Fred not sure if that date is an 05 or 07, it could be either. It's an interesting sling and either way it goes with one of the earlier dated rifles, Ray

[rayg]

Well at least one of them looks good on my early 1900 display

http://i62.tinypic.com/et8uie.jpg
http://i57.tinypic.com/34xjl7q.jpg