458 Win Mag & 45-70 Govt ????

[older than dirt]

Hi, I have a chance to buy a Ruger #1 in 458 Win Mag for a good price. I have read & seen that the 458 WM has a brutal recoil. So could I download the brass to 45-70 govt specs. & will it shoot right on? Thank you in advance.

[joem]

I very much doubt it. I'm sure you will have to adjust the sights for your reduced load. You could try some "Trail Boss" powder. I use it in a very old RB that's longer than 45-70 and will take up to a 500 grain bullet and it's pleasant to shoot.

[Tuna]

Cast bullet loads do bring the 458 down to the 45-70 range but be aware the bullet diameter is .457 to .459 for the 458. A Lyman cast bullet from mold 457124 385gr. bullet using Unique at 19.0 grs. is at 1375 fps. for starters and at 23 grs. it's 1501 fps. for a top load fired from a Winchester M70 with 22 inch barrel.

[raymeketa]

Of course you can download the 458WM to any level that suits your fancy.

Don't mess with small charges of fast burning powder. Use something like IMR 3031. 40 grains behind a 350 or 400 grain jacketed bullet will duplicate the original 45-70-405 ballistics.

[Matt Anthony]

Speer has a reduced load using SR 4759. There is talk that 4759 will be discontinued for 2015, so go on any search engine and ask for reduced loadings for the 458. You will be amazed at how many shooters are asking the same question. Also a good muzzle brake would cut the standard recoil foot pounds in half, you might consider installing one.
Matt

[Dave in NGA]

My problem was the reverse of yours. I tried to load my Ruger No1 from standard 45-70 loads up to 458 magnum power levels. The 500 grain bullets are just too long for the short throat on the 45-70 chamber. If you try to stuff the longer bullet back into the case it just swells out and becomes too fat to chamber. The best I can do is 350 grain jacketed bullets or 385 grain cast bullets in my rifle. I can load them pretty hot but they still fall short of equaling what the 458 magnum can do.

I've loaded some very mild loads using the 385 grain cast bullet and driven by light loads of Unique. The trajectory is about like passing a football but they are still accurate out to 100 yards.

[da gimp]

On the warmer .45-70 loads....... seek the older Lyman manuals that listed loads for converted Siamese Mausers to .45-70. They easily were 90% of Winchester factory .458 Win soft point loads..... A buddy had 1 made up & when my lady was 21 yrs old, 5'2". 117 lbs, she could get off 2 very rapid shots onto the center of a milk jug out of Roger's rifle.....Roger couldn't afford to get a Win mod 70 African, or Ruger 77 in .458, & that converted Siamese Mauser filled the bill for a dependable dangerous game rifle paid for out of a poor old country boy's pockets. Michele allowed as how the recoil was noticeable , but she handled it very easily, but shooting sessions were kept very brief too. Look up .45-90 & .45-110 loads too, they're pretty decent too sir.

[Sunray]

"...Lyman manuals that listed loads for..." Will be older than the 45th Edition. .45-70 loads are Trapdoor or 1886 Winchester lever actions.
"...will it shoot right on?..." You'll have to work up the load and sight in just like any other rifle.

[da gimp]

sure any load needs to be sighted in, in any firearm........ but the better 1886 loads are equivalent to the Marlins. I don't rate them any stronger than the 1886's. The Siamese Mausers have much, much stronger actions.