1870 identification, closet find

[bnrg]

Hi,
I have been asked by a relative to sell what we think is an 1870 trapdoor. The story behind it is that his grandfather received it as a 'gag gift' at a local sportsmans event in the 1930's. It has been in a closet ever since.

The breech block is marked '1870' with no 'model' over it. Serial number on left side of receiver is 49677, which is also marked on the barrel just in front of this. The lock is 1863. There is a 'D' on the barrel just in front of the barrel/receiver alignment scribed line. There is about a 1/16" gap between the back of the rear sight and the front of the receiver. No markings on the wood that I can see. It has the ramrod which is even with the end of the barrel, and while it turns, it does not come out of the stock for some reason. It appears to be in reasonable shape, tho the wood is scratched up with a few small scrapes. Bore not too bad, IMO.

I am going to sell it online and would like to be able to verify the actual model and include any other info that you can tell me.

I have tried to post pics, but the window that opens when I select 'manage attachments' is blank, no buttons to select to let me browse to the pics-can some on help me with this too? I realize that what I am asking for really needs pics.

Thanks,
Bob

[Dick Hosmer]

You have a Model 1868 Springfield rifle, made in 1870 - not a Model 1870 which has a shorter receiver and is not numbered. Caliber is .50-70 - ammunition is available from various niche suppliers. The rod is retained by a small stud ahead of the upper band, which engages the groove - all you need to do is pull the rod away from the barrel then pull it forward. No pics required - you can see specimens of both models at www.picturetrail.com/sa4570af I would suggest looking at www.gunbroker.com for comparable items, then offering it for sale there.

You are not alone in having picture posting problems - no one can - it is a website issue, related to a recent server upgrade, which the staff is working on - hopefully it will be fixed soon.

There are several varieties in the 1868/1870 series of arms, around which there is much confusion, because a great number of people (NOT you!) seem to be unable to read past finding the one for the highest price which looks "close".

Having the long receiver and serial numbers:

1868 rifle (as you describe) marked 1868, 1869, and 1870. 52,400 made (1868 VERY rare, 1869 common, 1870 most common of all)
1869 cadet rifle - with shorter barrel and thinner stock, all marked 1870. 3425 made, uncommon

Having the short receiver and no numbers:

1870 Trials rifle. 1,000 made, scarce. Rear sight tight to receiver as on 1868.
1870 Trials carbine. 361 made, rare. Rear sight tight to receiver as on 1868. This model was not adopted - there was no large-quantity run.
1870 rifle (production version) rear sight set about 7/16" from receiver, made first without, but later with, word "Model". 12,000 total, after further consideration, I'd guess the "no model - Model" split is about one third without, two-thirds with.

[butlersrangers]

bnrg: You should buy Dick Hosmer's very fine book on this subject. You can get it from him (very reasonable price and autographed)!

[raymeketa]

Have you guys tried a photo host?

http://i58.tinypic.com/2n8n12d.jpg

[Dick Hosmer]

I use a photo host - Picturetrail - for my web page, but also upload to various forums directly from my computer.

The problem seems to be here, not with us. "Manage attachments" simply does not work any more, presenting a blank window in which no cursor action of any sort is accepted. Both Mac and PC users, and with a variety of browsers, all report same problem.

Photo handling here is complex, compared to some other sites. Gun Values Board, for example, has a completely seamless, direct, two-click operation, without the intermediary screens and dragging of images, etc. Clicking "add pictures" immediately and directly opens the proper folder on my computer - highlighting a file and clicking "choose" applies image directly to the waiting post. Could not possibly be simpler - more boards should adopt their system.

[bnrg]

Thanks for the information Dick, this is very helpful.

On a related note, how do you generally handle shipping antiques? I understand that this is handled differently than post 1898 firearms, but do I need to still ship thru an FFL to prevent potential issues with places that have rigid laws; DC, NYC, Chicago, ...

Thanks again,
Bob

[Dick Hosmer]

Over the years I have been almost exclusively a buyer - have not shipped a gun in quite awhile. You should be able to ship such a gun anywhere with no restrictions, or FFL dealer, but, times have changed. As part of your sales process, require seller to state that he is legally able to receive the gun. If there is any doubt, it would be safer to go through an FFL. I do not know where you are, and you do not know where you will be shipping the gun. I recently had to go through post-1898 antics with buying an 1868, from ME to CA, simply because the rifle took a commercially available fixed cartridge. Pack well and require full-coverage insurance. The safest way, though probably the absolute slowest, and not cheap, is Registered Mail from the USPS. Hope that helps.