Issues with a NZ based Eddystone

[adrianbnz]

Hi all. My first post and it's all the way from New Zealand. I'll apologize in advance for the length but am trying to give you guys in the North as much info as I can. I got a M1917 Eddystone at an auction 3 months ago and discovered when I got it home it has been counterbored approx 48mm! Ouch, but not the end of the world I thought. It has CAI VT markings so I'm guessing it has been overseas, maybe directly here to NZ. Barrel is dull and frosty but has reasonable rifling still and has had a thorough cleaning with Butch's bore shine [x 3] and bronze brush.
First range test I did I fired a couple of Trail Boss loads thru it just to be safe and all looked good so fired 5 LC M2 Ball rounds at 100 yds and it was shooting 16" or so consistently to the left! Drifted front sight sight left maybe 2mm and no improvement. Went back to 50 yds and drifted sight left so far left it was ridiculous. Managed to just clip the target frame. Brass showed faint ring above the base.
Second range test I loaded up some NNY brass with 46gr of AR2208 [4064] and 165g Speer GS flat base. Recentred the sight and went back out to 100 yds and just got 5 rounds on the card but still 12" left. An improvement with larger projectiles but still not great. Elevation was good. Brass [NNY] had a visible bright ring but a stray Win case showed the same but also a noticeable swelling at the ring. Hmm, now I was starting to think head space issues.
Third range test I tried some 180gr Sierra Prohunters using NNY brass.Only fired one as it had same bright ring but primer had visibly flattened out although there was no sign of powder leak. Ditto at the neck. POI was same as previous test. Decided that was enough until I can nut this bad boy out.
I stripped the rifle today and stock looks in good shape for 96 years young with no soft oily patches or spilts etc. Also stripped the bolt of spring and extractor and loaded a Federal factory case and bolt closed. Added one layer of masking tape and bolt still closed. Added a second layer and closed halfway. The barrel index marks are spot on.
Barrel is E 11-18, E bolt, in fact mostly E except for R front sight and W stock.
Can rent a set of Forster HS gauges via mail order if necessary but would appreciate your thoughts or advice first. Cheers.

[p246]

Welcome to the forum. If you have access to a bore scope look at the counter bore job. A friend brought me a Mosin that was shooting wide right. With a bore scope I could see the counter bore was not square. It was deeper on the left side. I assume as the bullet left the riflings left side first enough gas blew by to cause the bullet to yaw right. I'm no engineer so someone smarter might have a better explanation. He played with different loads etc. With no cure. I suggested a deeper counterbore but he didn't want to spend the money and last I knew it was holding up a closet wall.

As far as head space yes get that done asap. No reason not knowing in today's age with an old rifle.

[kcw]

A counterbore of nearly 2" is rather extreme I'd think. Usually such work was done just deep enough to remove the effects of overzealous cleaning rod wear (.5"-.75"). As p246 notes the issue may well be that of the counterbore being off center. but another thing to look into is if the stock is possibly warped. The M1917 barrel should be free floated right out to within the last inch or so the muzzle end of the stock. When the action is locked up to the stock the barrel should lay nicely in the center of the stock at the muzzle end. A stock warped, to one side or the other, will press upon the side barrel. The only pressure on the barrel at the muzzle end of the stock should be an UPWARD pressure of around 5 pounds. Another issue to consider is that the possibility that barrel might be bent. I've found that M1917's with worn or pitted barrels tend to like the heavier, flat based bullets (ie 180) & moderate loads of slower powders (ie IMR 4350). Load them out to within a couple mm's of the rifling so as to minimize "jump". Also don't over clean the bore. They seem to shoot better the dirtier they are when they are pitted.

[adrianbnz]

Thanks for your reply p246. I thought there could be a burr left by the counter bore but your theory re the Mosin makes sense! I'll have to ask around and see if I can track down a bore scope. I'm keen to get this beast shooting straight. Probably will never be a tack driver but 2 - 3" groups at 100 I'd be happy with. Just going to be a process of elimination me thinks.

[adrianbnz]

Thanks kcw. Your comments re barrel fit to stock is most helpful. As far as I can see the barrel channel looks exactly like the day it was milled out. The only apparent contact point is right at the front as you state. Could a bent barrel be straightened? Hope this is not the case.
I've been around firearms a long time but have to admit I had never heard of counter boring until I got the Eddystone. For now I'll get the head space and counter bore checked out an then go from there. Love the old 30-06 cal, got two more in the safe. Cheers.

[kcw]

Thanks kcw. Your comments re barrel fit to stock is most helpful. As far as I can see the barrel channel looks exactly like the day it was milled out. The only apparent contact point is right at the front as you state. Could a bent barrel be straightened? Hope this is not the case.
I've been around firearms a long time but have to admit I had never heard of counter boring until I got the Eddystone. For now I'll get the head space and counter bore checked out an then go from there. Love the old 30-06 cal, got two more in the safe. Cheers.

Barrels can be straightened by someone familiar with the process. In fact there are old pics from one of the M1917 factories showing workers manually checking the straightness of the barrels by holding them up to daylight coming in through a window. They're looking through the bore and checking for the "roundness" of the light coming through. In a bent barrel the daylight will apparently look more like a 4/5 moon, or a similar % of the full moon viewed in a straight barrel.
If you find that your headspace is a bit on the long side of things I wouldn't get too upset. I've dealt with that situation by segregating an amount of brass to only such a gun, and then only neck sizing while limiting to moderate charges. This is a common process with the 303 Brit, which can have headspace all over the place, as you are no doubt aware.

[RC20]

So far almost all of mine (the JA WWII barrel and exception) headspace out right at the extreme end of allowable.

Also of interest are how the groves start, they are square on the 1917s and in a hand load I find them shorter than the same bullet for a1903 (assuming you are searing close the groves).

The close to 2 inch (us, ie. 50mm being about 2 inches) counter bore is pretty shocking.

Do you have access to a Throat erosion gauge? (Stephan Mathews in the US makes one that is pretty close, actually its a 1903 gauge but he has check it and its not a bad indicator.

A lot of TE could be adding to the issue.

[adrianbnz]

So far almost all of mine (the JA WWII barrel and exception) headspace out right at the extreme end of allowable.

Also of interest are how the groves start, they are square on the 1917s and in a hand load I find them shorter than the same bullet for a1903 (assuming you are searing close the groves).

The close to 2 inch (us, ie. 50mm being about 2 inches) counter bore is pretty shocking.

Do you have access to a Throat erosion gauge? (Stephan Mathews in the US makes one that is pretty close, actually its a 1903 gauge but he has check it and its not a bad indicator.

A lot of TE could be adding to the issue.

Thanks for your reply. I don't have a TE gauge but I do have a Hornady LNL OAL gauge so I can seat the projectiles out close to the lands. Yes, 50mm of counter bore seems excessive from what I have read on various sites and forums. Guess I could turn Eddy into a 8mm06 [lol, I'll go and wash my mouth out]. I'll post again when I make some progress with her. Cheers

[RC20]

If you have a US made bullet and the ID let us know and someone should be able to let you know what the COAL would be for a normal barrel (or as close to normal as these get)

PS: preferably COAL in inches not that pesky metric system though I have a digital calipers I can convert on.

[John Sukey]

Just anther thought; If the barrel is bearing on one side of the forend, it could also cause the rifle to shoot off. Barrel should only touch the wood at the reciever end and at the front end

[adrianbnz]

Just anther thought; If the barrel is bearing on one side of the forend, it could also cause the rifle to shoot off. Barrel should only touch the wood at the reciever end and at the front end

Thanks John, I'll have a closer look at that. Confirmed head space with a Forster field gauge. Bolt closed on its own so will necksize and use moderate loads in the Lake City brass as it didn't stretch as much as the commercial stuff. I'm still thinking the counter bore is the main issue! Cheers

[Clark Howard]

I am not sure of the export/import ramifications, but you should be aware that new barrels for your rifle are available from the Civilian Marksmanship Program for less than 200 US. Regards, Clark

[adrianbnz]

I am not sure of the export/import ramifications, but you should be aware that new barrels for your rifle are available from the Civilian Marksmanship Program for less than 200 US. Regards, Clark

Thanks Clark,thats handy to know, a new barrel could be an option if all else fails. These the ones made by Criterion I'm assuming. I'm hoping to be able to get a gunsmith to take a look at the counterbore in the next few weeks and see where we go from there.
Cheers.

[chuckindenver]

id say, most likely the barrel is out of index..

[adrianbnz]

id say, most likely the barrel is out of index..

Thanks for your thoughts. Contact of mine is sending the barrel and action to a reliable gunsmith he knows, so will get him to check that. Guy I'm dealing with thinks the counterbore job looks to be "pretty ordinary". Crap might be a better way to describe it!
:) Cheers