Help with Trapdoor Rifle ID please

[glindes]

'Evening folks. I'm hoping you all would help me ID this Trapdoor Rifle I have. I'm not clear if the serial # is 81608 or 31608.
I have the bayonet/scabbard & sling. If my pix are useable... Thanks in advance, Geoff http://i59.tinypic.com/15d4brr.jpg http://i62.tinypic.com/eswaxy.jpg http://i61.tinypic.com/2vcupfs.jpg http://i58.tinypic.com/2moe00l.jpg http://i62.tinypic.com/21jdhn7.jpg

heeere goes..

[Dick Hosmer]

It is 31608, from the shape of the receiver walls. The gas clearance cuts were deepened at about 77600. Beyond that I cannot say. The stock comb has been modified. Please advise length of barrel, inside the bore - is it 29-5/8"? If so, you have a cadet rifle, which of course should not have sling swivels.

[glindes]

Thank you. Where is that measurement made? (muzzle to face of closed breechblock? = 26 5/8" , or muzzle to rear of chamber? = 29 5/8" ) See pix.

Yes. There is a repair in the wrist area. The rifle was issued to my grandfather (b.1895) in the Boy's Brigade. Father's family were furniture/cabinet makers. I asked my father a couple of years ago about the wrist repair. He said (sheepishly) he may have broken it playing with it as a kid. I remember firing it as a kid. http://i59.tinypic.com/11qofhw.jpg http://i59.tinypic.com/11qofhw.jpg[/IMG] http://i58.tinypic.com/21b15zq.jpg http://i60.tinypic.com/11jvuqh.jpg
The 34th Ed. of Blue Book of Gun Values mention a cadet$100.00 deduct in value if "variation with sling swivels" Under 1873 cadet Rifle with 29 1/2" barrel. --Geoff (trying to keep up with this class...)

[glindes]

Thank you. Where is that measurement made? (muzzle to face of closed breechblock? = 26 5/8" , or muzzle to rear of chamber? = 29 5/8" ) See pix.

Yes. There is a repair in the wrist area. The rifle was issued to my grandfather (b.1895) in the Boy's Brigade. Father's family were furniture/cabinet makers. I asked my father a couple of years ago about the wrist repair. He said (sheepishly) he may have broken it playing with it as a kid. I remember firing it as a kid. http://i59.tinypic.com/11qofhw.jpg http://i59.tinypic.com/11qofhw.jpg[/IMG] http://i58.tinypic.com/21b15zq.jpg http://i60.tinypic.com/11jvuqh.jpg
The 34th Ed. of Blue Book of Gun Values mention a cadet$100.00 deduct in value if "variation with sling swivels" Under 1873 cadet Rifle with 29 1/2" barrel. --Geoff (trying to keep up with this class...) oops http://i62.tinypic.com/dmqhso.jpg

[Dick Hosmer]

Actually, I didn't see the wrist repair - was just speaking of the altered profile. Proper measurement (of all barrels) is always from face of closed breech to muzzle, so yours has been shortened even further. Great "family" gun to keep and pass on, but, unfortunately little collector value/appeal.

[glindes]

Thanks Mr. Hosmer; that's what I really wanted to know! Regards --Geoff ps. Can I use the term: "family" gun? I like it. G.

[Dick Hosmer]

Glad to help.

Sure - use "family gun" all you want. :-)

I am a big proponent of NOT selling such items, unless a person has no kids, or is in dire straits.

[TomSudz]

I'd never be foolish enough to argue with Dick- we're fortunate enough on these forums to have several members who literally did "write the book" on certain arms, he being one of them. I did notice on your first picture that Springfield was kind enough to put an 8 in the serial number. Comparing the first number to the last number (8), it's plain to see the first number is a 3. I only point this out because on occasions when I'm unsure of a number I'll take a photo of the SN and put it on the computer to look at it. Small stamped numbers are easier to see on the screen and if you have one of the numbers you think it could be for comparison, it makes it easier to ID numbers.

[Dick Hosmer]

Knowing what the profile of the gas escape cuts on the sides of the receiver are supposed to look like can also be very helpful when the number is unclear on a low-numbered arm. Saved me all sorts of magnifying, squinting, and guessing since I knew it could not possibly be an "8". FWIW, sometimes SA got their "8" upside-down. :-)

[glindes]

TomSudz, Yes! I agree about "computer enhancement". In the high-voltage contruction/maint/operations worlds we were using digital picture early-on for identifying part numbers as well as some damage assessments involving aerial or energized fittings, hardware, etc. eliminating climbing, shutdowns. etc. Geoff

[glindes]

Knowing what the profile of the gas escape cuts on the sides of the receiver are supposed to look like can also be very helpful when the number is unclear on a low-numbered arm. Saved me all sorts of magnifying, squinting, and guessing since I knew it could not possibly be an "8". FWIW, sometimes SA got their "8" upside-down. :-)

Mr. Hosmer, where on the receiver sides are the "gas escape cuts" located? Geoff

[Dick Hosmer]

On the early receivers, before approx. 77575*, the contour break is about midway along the top of each side wall - it very slight, a bit rounded, and can be hard to see/feel at first. On all later receivers, the profile change/step/notch occurs about 3/16" ahead of the thumblatch cut, and is much sharper and deeper, allowing significantly more room for gas (from a ruptured case) to escape harmlessly to the sides.

*I own 77593, which for many years was thought to be the lowest known deep cut, but Jack Lewis (Cowans Auctions) came up with a lower one by about 10.

[raymeketa]

http://i59.tinypic.com/2uhbmup.jpg