need help

[trimmer99]

I'm new to the model 1917 and could use some guidance. I am starting a collection of US Military rifles and am interested in purchasing a Model 1917. I want to make an informed decision and could use some help. I'm planning on mining this forum for info first. Then I am looking for suggestions on reading material for this rifle? Also, any common pitfalls to avoid? Any suggestions at all would be most appreciated. Thanks, RB

[EricR]

One common pitfall is bore condition. Many M1917's were sold to the public from the CMP and the majority of these rifles were last used for ceremonial purposes, firing corrosive blanks. Many rifles you may find for sale may look fantastic on the exterior only to have grossly corroded bores.

I think they're awesome rifles. If you're lucky enough to find one that hasn't been refinished you'll observe a blued steel that rivals fine sporting arms. They were built like "tanks" with great fit and finish. But obviously these are very old rifles so never shy away from a rebuild in good condition. Also, as an owner of an Eddystone (original finish and original barrel) with some horrible pits in the bore, it still shoots very well at 100 yards. I also have refinished / re-barreled Remington that I would never part with. Both purchased from CMP years ago.

[Dad]

Here's some reading material for you.

http://www.odcmp.org/503/rifle.pdf

http://www.guns.com/2012/10/24/remington-m1917-enfield-rifle/

And a link on markings on the various parts.

http://m1903.com/m1917markings.htm

The three manufacturers did not trade parts, so any parts with a different manufacturer's marking have been replaced post original delivery to the government.

Good hunting!

D.

[IditarodJoe]

I seem to recall reading that, unlike Remington and Winchester 1917s, Eddystones are prone to problems when changing barrels - was it cracked receivers when removing the old barrel, maybe? I would welcome any knowledgeable discussion on this topic. I found the book "United States Rifle Model of 1917" by C. S. Ferris to be very informative.

[kcw]

If you find one stamped NOT ENGLISH MAKE on the side of the receiver it's most likely one those sold to Britain during WWII. The rifles sold to Britain were from the unissued inventory left over from WWI. In many cases they where sold as surplus in the U.S. in excellent to new condition in the late 50's. When issued in Britain during the war there was a band of red paint painted around the fore stock. Typically the paint was removed by the purchaser, but traces may remain. Immediately following WWI there was a short term rebuild program started for M1917's issued during the war, but it only lasted a short time and the bulk of the rifles were more or less "out away wet" in government warehouses and forgotten. Then, in the panic of the start of the American involvement in WWII, those old war horses were dug out and put through emergency rebuild. Depending on the condition of each rifle they might have gotten just a cursory going over or a complete rebarreling & refinishing. WWII refinished rifles were black Parkerized. Used parts, or NOS parts were commonly employed, so most are "mixmasters". An interesting fact about WWII rebuilds is that there was no attempt to sight in rifles which were rebarreled, or which had a damaged front sight assembly replaced at the arsenal. Apparently they just kicked them out the door and left the business of sighting to whomever they were first issued to. Unfortunately some rifles were all but useless because this. For example, I have a reparked Eddystone with its original barrel, but there's A USED Winchester front sight assembly on it which was reparked with the rifle. The Winchester front sight insert was among the tallest made. The rifle shot 20" low at 100yds when I got it. It actually needed one of the shortest inserts to make it useable. This situation is common with the WWII rebuilds.

[RC20]

I seem to recall reading that, unlike Remington and Winchester 1917s, Eddystones are prone to problems when changing barrels - was it cracked receivers when removing the old barrel, maybe? I would welcome any knowledgeable discussion on this topic. I found the book "United States Rifle Model of 1917" by C. S. Ferris to be very informative.

Chuck in Denver disagrees on the barrel issue if done right. Ergo, a lot done by back yard and done wrong. The best insurance is a barrel mfg that matches the rifle and the production date should be within a month or so (though that can vary) to the barrel date (barrel is dated, receiver you have to look up)

The vas majority have mixed parts, few all OEM parts and those could have been "updated" so if you pay that premium you would want provenance and that depends on integrity and how you perceiver the buyer. Not something you will find on Gurnbokers.

Ferris I think did a very good job. Some missing pieces but what he does have is good.

[RC20]

This group also has good information.

http://www.milsurps.com/forumdisplay.php?f=111

[warbrds]

Chuck in Denver disagrees on the barrel issue if done right. Ergo, a lot done by back yard and done wrong. The best insurance is a barrel mfg that matches the rifle and the production date should be within a month or so (though that can vary) to the barrel date (barrel is dated, receiver you have to look up)

The vas majority have mixed parts, few all OEM parts and those could have been "updated" so if you pay that premium you would want provenance and that depends on integrity and how you perceiver the buyer. Not something you will find on Gurnbokers.

Ferris I think did a very good job. Some missing pieces but what he does have is good.

I agree with Chuck in Denver, I had the proper receiver wrench and barrel vise and had no issues changing a barrel on a Winchester 1917, need to use the correct tools. The Ferris book is very good

[RC20]

Once you get a base of understanding the gun, then its a move to decide what you want.

The Model of 1917 is easier in many regards as it was limited to a few years production and does not have the 40+ years of production variants the 1903 had.

However within it are the 3 mfgs that made it as well as what service it saw, including WWII when they made new barrel for it.

You can go lower cost and get a re-arsenaled one. You can try to get an all original.

What you will run into is that the desirable ones are trending into knowing owner hands and are not cheap. Upwards of 700-800 for a decent one. The serious collectors have feelers out and can often get a very good one for a lower price, most of us don't have that network and how long do you wait?


Keep in mind, decent means shootable and that requires a good to decent barrel. Unless you make the purchase in person and have the MW (muzzle wear) and TE (throat erosion ) gauge, you won't know that (or if you get it Internet won't know until it arrives and you have the tool)

There are some rule of thrum tests you can do with a bullet but you need to know the bullet, its oggive and a rough idea and that give you MW, TE can be really bad if it had blanks shot in it to any degree. I saw a barrel for sale that I was able to get the offer to use a Steve Mathews gauge for the reading and it was severely eroded which explains why it was taken off a gun in the first place.

You can make internet offers and base keeping a gun on the condition you find it when you get it but you have to specify what that is or they have to provide an accurate one that can be disagreed with.

[PhillipM]

I seem to recall reading that, unlike Remington and Winchester 1917s, Eddystones are prone to problems when changing barrels - was it cracked receivers when removing the old barrel, maybe? I would welcome any knowledgeable discussion on this topic. I found the book "United States Rifle Model of 1917" by C. S. Ferris to be very informative.

I read that Eddystone was the only manufacturer to use a machine to install the barrels and the machine applied a much greater torque than what the guys at Remington and Winchester were doing by hand. Cracked receivers are a result of amateurs trying to remove them.

[RC20]

No, same method as everyone else used, i.e. hand, urban legend stuff.

Also, barrel are pre made and have index marks. You like it up to the index mark, ergo, it would not matter what you used as long as the index mark is on the force to get it there is the same hand or machine.