Help identifying this fixed front sight on a trapdoor

[Sportsdad60]

Hello!
New member here, NRA member since 1969 and I have found a new passion in the Springfield Trapdoors.

I have recently become the owner of an Model 1873 owned by my best friend's father who has owned it since 1941. His father was a black powder shooter and reloader with several non-trapdoor firearms in his possession both black powder and modern firearms (some still for sale, I am on commission to sell them) and his father took very good care of his rifles/pistols.

This particular rifle I chose to buy myself at a very reasonable price with vintage ammo that appears to be worth more than the rifle itself after some research!

This trapdoor appears to be a standard rifle, 1883 cartouche, all the proper markings (P for proof fired), Buffington rear sights, etc. It has very clean rifling in the barrel.

However, I cannot for the LIFE of me find this type of fixed front sight even in Joe Poyer's book The .45-70 Springfield nor any other examples of it. It is a very HIGH fixed from sight, so much so that the bayonet will not fit over it.
Photo below.
Could this fixed front sight have been put on sometime between the manufacturer date and 1941?

Here are the rest of the pictures of the rifle. (2 pages) Bayonet shown as well.
http://sportsdad60.smugmug.com/1873-Springfield-Trapdoor-45/n-gxR9F/


http://sportsdad60.smugmug.com/photos/i-ggjjDfg/0/O/i-ggjjDfg.jpg

http://sportsdad60.smugmug.com/photos/i-h94zMFV/0/X2/i-h94zMFV-X2.jpg


Here is just a fraction of the ammo that came with the rifle. I have recently had an inspection done on the barrel and plan to fire just a few loads of newer Powder River .45-70 -405 grain ammo soon. The trap is very sturdy (no rattle) and the bore in extremely good condition.
http://sportsdad60.smugmug.com/Ammo/n-VBNqk/

I am a Trapdoor newbie and appreciate any and all feedback and opinions!

[Tom Trevor]

The front sight blade is from a 1903 Springfield. Installed by some previous shooter to shoot close range targets.Any Springfield parts dealer can supply you with the correct blade at little cost.

[Sportsdad60]

Thank you! I suspect the previous owner thought it shot 'high' (not familiar with Buffington sights?) and had it put on.

[Sportsdad60]

One other question. Is there a trick to removing the cleaning rod? I will not budge when pull straight out by hand...

[Major Tom]

Pull down on the tip of the cleaning rod, then pull out. On my 1884 I have to pull down about 3/8 inch. As for the front sight, it was installed because most trapdoors will shoot high as much as 12 inches. I made several sight blades in various heights to correct mine. Original front sight blades can be bought from several sources for little money if you want the bayonet to fit and to look original. Shooting with original sight blade, I place a target 12 inches over another target and aim at the lower one to get groups on the above target.

[Sportsdad60]

Thank you for the quick replies!

[Tkacook]

You have to pull down while pull forward. The groove in the rod is held by the catch. If the rod has not been removed for a long time it might be rusted or stuck. Try rotating it back and forward before trying to remove it.

TKacook

[Sportsdad60]

Perfect. Thanks. It popped right out when I executed per your instructions. Nice and clean too!

[PhillipM]

It's actually an 1903A3 sight blade. They are taller than 1903 sights and have a letter A-E stamped on them denoting their height. I think A was the tallest.

[Sportsdad60]

Wow! I'm hooked on the Springfield .45-70. My 16 year old son and I went and shot 20 rounds through her today. Awesome rifle! Shooting a bit low with the 1903A3 Springfield sites at 75 yards but nothing I can't adjust to. Next time out we plan do do 100 yards. Here is a video of Reilly shooting it today. His 2nd shot he damn near hit a bullseye! :)

https://vimeo.com/119022508


Another question: I have some very old vintage .45-70 ammunition some of it copper jacketed. Can you folks point me to a source where I can identify this ammo? Thank you!

[Dick Hosmer]

No headstamps? Do you mean copper-jacketed bullet, or copper cartridge cases themselves?

Post photos, we should be able to give you an idea.

If you find anything marked "WHV" do NOT shoot it in the TD - that was meant for the 1886 Winchester.

[Sportsdad60]

Copper cartridge I believe.
Will do. I will take some close up photos tomorrow. A lot of spent and live ammunition.

[Sportsdad60]

Finally took some pics of the old shell casings.

[Sportsdad60]

more

[11mm]

The second to last (four) shell cases are US Government made items. I believe the F stands for Frankford Arsenal. The year and month of manufacture (e.g. F 6 88 means June of 1888) is in the headstamp. The others are commercial cartridges, some made by UMC (United Metallic Cartridge) which sometimes was a division of Remington. Those are probably from the 1920's to the 1930's.

[Dick Hosmer]

The cartridge cases shown are a mixture of government (Frankford Arsenal) and commercial (Winchester and UMC). The brass ones MAY have been government contract as the same HS was used.

Cases are brass and an alloy called Bloomfield Gilding Metal, which looks like - and mostly is - copper. The non-headstamped brass case is probably Winchester. The case with the knurling around the center was loaded with smokeless powder, the others were loaded with BP. The knurl was required to hold the bullet as the case was no longer stuffed full.

I'm not sure about the green box, but the oatmeal/buff one is most likely pre-1900. UMC merged with Remington in 1912, when the headstamp changed to REM-UMC. The S-H (for solid head) was an early advertising gimmick, when many cases were stil being made as "balloon head" meaning they had an unsupported primer pocket.

While I see nothing "rare", all of that ammo is worth much more to a collector than to shoot. Even the boxes have value.

Many years ago, an acquaintence of mine had a LOT of Benet inside-primed FA ammo, from the 1870s and 1880s, and fired quite a bit of it, since it was cheap and plentiful. Even after 75 years of storage, he noted that over 90% fired properly.

[Sportsdad60]

The cartridge cases shown are a mixture of government (Frankford Arsenal) and commercial (Winchester and UMC). The brass ones MAY have been government contract as the same HS was used.

Cases are brass and an alloy called Bloomfield Gilding Metal, which looks like - and mostly is - copper. The non-headstamped brass case is probably Winchester. The case with the knurling around the center was loaded with smokeless powder, the others were loaded with BP. The knurl was required to hold the bullet as the case was no longer stuffed full.

I'm not sure about the green box, but the oatmeal/buff one is most likely pre-1900. UMC merged with Remington in 1912, when the headstamp changed to REM-UMC. The S-H (for solid head) was an early advertising gimmick, when many cases were stil being made as "balloon head" meaning they had an unsupported primer pocket.

While I see nothing "rare", all of that ammo is worth much more to a collector than to shoot. Even the boxes have value.

Many years ago, an acquaintence of mine had a LOT of Benet inside-primed FA ammo, from the 1870s and 1880s, and fired quite a bit of it, since it was cheap and plentiful. Even after 75 years of storage, he noted that over 90% fired properly.
11mm and Dick Hosmer,
THank you for your replies.
Fascinating bit of history and I thank you so very much for the history!

[Sportsdad60]

Update:
Found an era-correct sight for this 1883-made Springfield model 1873.
I've put about 40 Powder River-brand low pressure rounds through it at the rifle range. That 1903A3 fixed front sight blade forced me to dial it in with the Buffington rear sight at 250 yards to hit a bullseye at 75 yards!!
NOT GOOD.
Not only does the bayonet fit now with the correct front fixed sight...but I'll bet donuts to dollars that the next time I take it out this week-end it will be shooting 'correct'. :) Plan on sighting it it with three targets at 50/75/100. Once I group 3 round at 100 yards then I'll bring it to the 200 yard range. (I've shot iron sights my whole life)

Thanks all for solving this mystery!
I'm totally addicted to this old rifle and thankfully it is in excellent shape with a super clean barrel so I will enjoy shooting this piece!