New (to me) 1868 Trapdoor Rifle

[steelap]

Just received an 1868 Trapdoor rifle, purchased from the CMP Forum.

Here is a link to the seller's pictures: http://imgur.com/a/htosn

I just purchased Mr. Hosmer's book.

The hammer screw and the cleaning rod are missing. Should I pick them up from Trapdooorcollector.com? Will any of the 50-70 hammer screws there be appropriate?

The only 1868 cleaning rod they have is a repro. I can live with that if I have to.

What should I do to ensure the rifle is safe to shoot? Mr Rush at Trapdoors Galore offers a consulting service to determine if the rifle is safe to fire, and what parts it needs. As a rank newbie I don't know anything about him. Cany anyone offer a suggestion?

Last (I promise) question. If I am to fire this rifle I will need to reload ammunition for it. $5/round seems pretty steep for manufactured ammo. Accordingly, I will need to slug the bore to determine the correct diameter for the bullet. I have read that the older rifles need a larger bullet than the reproduction ones. Question - How do you slug the bore, and how do you take the measurement.

Many thanks to all.

[Fred]

You don't need to send it off to anyone for any fee. No doubt that he tried to talk you into that.
I have always molded my own bullets from Dixie Gun Works. It's their old 450 grain flat nosed bullet mold made of steel that has the Red scissor type handles. red in color. Dixie also sells the 50-70 brass cases that take Large Rifle Primers.

[Mark Daiute]

Just received an 1868 Trapdoor rifle, purchased from the CMP Forum.

Here is a link to the seller's pictures: http://imgur.com/a/htosn

I just purchased Mr. Hosmer's book.

The hammer screw and the cleaning rod are missing. Should I pick them up from Trapdooorcollector.com? Will any of the 50-70 hammer screws there be appropriate?

The only 1868 cleaning rod they have is a repro. I can live with that if I have to.

What should I do to ensure the rifle is safe to shoot? Mr Rush at Trapdoors Galore offers a consulting service to determine if the rifle is safe to fire, and what parts it needs. As a rank newbie I don't know anything about him. Cany anyone offer a suggestion?

Last (I promise) question. If I am to fire this rifle I will need to reload ammunition for it. $5/round seems pretty steep for manufactured ammo. Accordingly, I will need to slug the bore to determine the correct diameter for the bullet. I have read that the older rifles need a larger bullet than the reproduction ones. Question - How do you slug the bore, and how do you take the measurement.

Many thanks to all.

Are you already a reloader?

You and I are about to embark on the same journey at the same time. I just received my Model 1866 for which I will be casting and reloading.

Go to this website if you are not already familiar with it:

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/

there's a good forum in there for Black Powder Cartridge rifles and there's already a thread for reloading the 50-70. Good molds can be had at leeprecision.com for under 30 bucks. The website I just gave you will have threads on slugging the bore and measuring the results. I just got the 500grainer and like the results. I am waiting on a compression die and a sizing die and then I will be up and running. I got two sets of reloading dies off of ebay for under 30 bucks each. 50-70 die sets are out there.

Reloading is an adventure. Casting bullets and reloading for trapdoors is a real adventure.

Please keep us/me posted.

[steelap]

Thanks.

I reload smokeless cartridges but this is a different animal.

I'll check castboolits out.

My main concern is, "Is this rifle safe to shoot?"

[Dick Hosmer]

Many hundreds, if not thousands, shoot trapdoor rifles regularly - so - generically, yes, with proper loads - they are safe to shoot. Is YOURS safe to shoot? I cannot say. You have quite a bit of rust which should be cleaned up first. I'd suggest you take it to a gunsmith. The OLD, crotchety kind, the older the better - not some guy in his late 20s who specializes in mounting Picatinny rails on black rifles. I would also suggest that you fire the first couple of rounds with an old tire and a long string.

I, personally, would not have anything whatsoever to do with Mr. Rush in any way, shape, or form, period - but he does have a lot of parts. The other suppliers listed at www.trapdoorcollector.com (especially Red Daugherty and Ed Knisely) are good people.

Thanks for buying my book - I hope you enjoy it!

[steelap]

Many hundreds, if not thousands, shoot trapdoor rifles regularly - so - generically, yes, with proper loads - they are safe to shoot. Is YOURS safe to shoot? I cannot say. You have quite a bit of rust which should be cleaned up first. I'd suggest you take it to a gunsmith. The OLD, crotchety kind, the older the better - not some guy in his late 20s who specializes in mounting Picatinny rails on black rifles. I would also suggest that you fire the first couple of rounds with an old tire and a long string.

I, personally, would not have anything whatsoever to do with Mr. Rush in any way, shape, or form, period - but he does have a lot of parts. The other suppliers listed at www.trapdoorcollector.com (especially Red Daugherty and Ed Knisely) are good people.

Thanks for buying my book - I hope you enjoy it!

I've "listened" to you on these Forums since 2008, when I started collecting military rifles. I was happy to have an excuse to buy your book; it reads enjoyably and informatively. That is very difficult to do. I speak as an engineer who has had to wade through turgid reports, trying to get them cut down so that they are useful. It is amazing how many people try to use large words to confuse the reader. You do not. You say exactly what you mean in clear sentences and language.

Should I disassemble the rifle from the stock to clean up the rust - using oil an steel wool for the "Armory bright" surfaces? Should I open the lock to check the interior?

I have found no gunsmiths in the Huntsville area I would trust with a C&R weapon. There are some very good ones for modern 1911s; not so for older firearms. If you or anyone has a suggestion I would gratefully appreciate it.

A list of suggested books for loading and maintaining this 50-70 rifle would also be helpful; or a direction to the appropriate thread.

Many thanks!

[Tkacook]

Steelap,

I live in Birmingham. AL. I'll check around here. With Dick's book as a guide it should not be hard to clean up. I make 50-70 ammo for mine all the time. I use the Lee mold #515-450-F. These work great in mine. Just remember pure lead in these. Track of the Wolf has the brass back in stock. Pyrodex RS or real black FFg works well in my rifles. I think a 1869 breech block is rather rare. Be careful with the cleaning. PM me if you want.

TK

[Dick Hosmer]

Thanks for the kind words!

Yes, I would remove the metal from the wood for cleaning. Be very careful with the lock, trigger plate, and tang area. Read the disassembly instructions at www.trapdoorcollector.com. If you have any questions, ask me.

You might try copper or brass wool, but I have always used steel, usually 000 - you may need some 00. You can clean the blackened parts, too - just don't rub as hard, but you need to get the red fuzz off. I have gotten good results with a single-edged razor blade, but on hardened, flat parts ONLY, not the barrel. Use plenty of solvent - replace blade if nicked, and ALWAYS scrape, NEVER cut, and go lightly.

I was probably too harsh on the gunsmith issue! :-) If the rust isn't too deep, and block is snug on the pin, you are probably OK. Your rifle looks like it suffered much more from bad storage than heavy use.

I would get "Loading Cartridges for the Original .45-70 Rifle and Carbine by Wolf. Everything he says applies to the .50-70 as well.

[Kragrifle]

A good way to clean active rust is to use brass sheet stock with the edge kept square and sharp. This works better than the razor blade and safer, too.

[steelap]

Steelap,

I live in Birmingham. AL. I'll check around here. With Dick's book as a guide it should not be hard to clean up. I make 50-70 ammo for mine all the time. I use the Lee mold #515-450-F. These work great in mine. Just remember pure lead in these. Track of the Wolf has the brass back in stock. Pyrodex RS or real black FFg works well in my rifles. I think a 1869 breech block is rather rare. Be careful with the cleaning. PM me if you want.

TK

Thanks very much. I think that I need to slug the barrel just to know where I am.

Starline brass ordered; I have one pound of FFg but like the idea of pyrodex if it means easier cleaning.

I'll be getting with you about bullets.

Thanks!

[Tkacook]

The Lee mold and Lyman dies work well for me in my two 50-70. I have not had any cleaning issues with Pyrodex RS. I just have a funnel and pour water down the bore and clean with Hoppe's Black Powder Solvent & Patch Lubricant after that. Feel free to ask any questions you would like.

[13Echo]

I have an 1868 that I shoot. For bullets I cast out of 30:1 lead tin alloy and have gotten excellent results with the Lee 450gr bullet. The Lyman version , while a nice bullet, is too small diameter for these old rifles, at least in mine. NOE makes a beautiful copy of the original bullet with hollow or plain base (http://noebulletmolds.com/NV/product_info.php?cPath=44&products_id=437&osCsid=mtnqrlku7jgg349n24gnhgln57). I use 65grs Goex FFg compressed to allow seating the bullet to get a firm crimp over the base of the ogive, just like the original loads. The bullet is pan lubed with a black powder lube. Emmert's is good if you want to make your own as is SPG and others that you can buy. I use a compression die for the powder and a custom expander from Buffalo arms to get enough powder in the case and to allow seating the large diameter bullet without shaving lead. Dies are Lyman and RCBS mixed. Brass is Starline.

Jerry Liles