1907 Garand Sling Help

[bnew]

Has anybody seen the sling that is made by At The Front. It looks like a fairly close copy of the original. Price seems decent also.

[Dan Shapiro]

It looks like a cheap copy. Great for a static display that will never actually be used.

[psteinmayer]

If you're looking for a sling... you could do a lot worse than Turners... They are about the best!

[PhillipM]

Yes, you want a Turner.

http://www.mcssl.com/store/turnersaddleryinc/catalog/product/1d6679e82484439e962651e0aec22a7c

[Jay Johnson]

If the At The Front sling was in the $35-$40 price range I'd give it a shot, but I know the quality and durability of the Turner national match service rifle sling and for a $5 difference I'd order the Turner one and pay the extra $5.





.

[bnew]

Thanks, I didnt know the price of the Turners. I thought they were a lot more

[maverick1]

Fulton armory has some nice replica's too.

[Fred]

You get what you pay for.

[PhillipM]

Turner seconds are a few dollars more than at the front. I bought one and cannot find the flaw. If you buy the $70, you will be happy.

[Sunray]

At The Front is showing two 1907 slings. One they make and an "overseas" made copy. Turner's is the same as At The Front 's KT made sling, but more expensive. Gotta find the one I have. $70 US for a sling is insane.

[psteinmayer]

$70 may be insane... but Turners matches the original almost exactly. The hook holes are square just like originals, unlike most others that have round hook holes. Turner's quality is absolute also! I have a few of them, and I would rather pay the $70 than buy something inferior, and then have to buy another in a couple years...

[Richard Turner/Turner Saddlery]

I know that $70 plus for leather rifle slings seems ridiculous to some; however, I feel the same way about some of the high-tec nylon tactical slings which are commanding $80 plus, not to mention what my plummer and truck mechanic charge per hour. Here are some factors that effect pricing.

For the past three years the hide market has been rapidly changing. Our price per square foot has increased between 6% to 8% each year with a 3% surcharge the tannery passes along for their unexpected increase in cost incurred through out the year. If you notice an increase in beef prices at the butcher shop, rest assured the hide prices are up as well and the tannery does not wait until next year to go up. Last year we received three price increases. Five years ago we were paying $6.38 per SqFt and as of last month, we are now paying $10.40 per SqFt for this grade and cut of English Bridle Leather, and this is not considering the freight charges. For the grade leather we buy, this is the lowest manufacturers price the tannery offers since we may go through 30 to 40 hides on a good month. Instead of using premium U.S. Grade Steer Hides tanned in the U.S., I could use imported hides or hides from south of the border, what some use to call "Piss Tanned", but no one would be happy with this leather, as in my book, it sucks. These slings that are being imported from India and Pakistan are made from Water Buffalo hides, not steer hides, since cows are sacred to them.

Price increase letter from Hermann Oak Tannery
http://www.hermannoakleather.com/library/2015_Outlook_09.01.2014.pdf

We buy the hides in what is called "Back" cuts, which has the belly leather cut off prior to shipping. Even though we use the premium grade, I never know what a hide will yield. We can't use the shoulder section from most hides because it is not as good a quality as the prime part of the hide. I never know how many slings a particular hide will yield, some only eight slings and others twelve or so. Therefore, on an average of ten slings per hide at a cost of about $225 per hide, we are at a cost of $22.50 just for the sling's long and short straps before we even start to work. Even with premium hides, it is not unusual to get a bad hide or two. Once it is cut, it is yours, so another cost that has to be absorbed.

Labor is another thing, each strap is hand rolled on a iron bar to break-in the strap prior to punching and creasing. The leather strap is then dampened and ran through a combining machine (iron rollers) to even out the thickness and also removes stretch.

Our rivets are made to the original MILSPEC from 260 cartridge brass #13 Gauge wire on a button head wire forming machine as were the originals. Not off the shelf mule harness rivets or brake lining rivets which are most likely made off shore. Our rivets are set using a rivet hammer and anvil as were the originals. These rivets are no longer made anymore and have to be custom ordered to be run on our rivet dies at a wire company. Three years ago the rivets cost $21.00 per pound (650 rivets per lb.) with a minimum of 350 lbs for the company to run the rivets.

Most have seen the post on the sling hooks (frogs) being discontinued. So last year I had to borrow money to have our own dies made so we could stay in business, as there was not another U.S. company making the hooks. At least I had the Rock Island Drawings, so the dies and parts are correct. Since word got out that we have our own dies, we have been inundated with calls wanting to buy hooks, but it is all that I can do to run and finish what we need to operate. We are also making our own brass frogs to WWI specs. The cost of the dies has not been factored into the cost of the sling, and was chalked up to a cost of doing business.

This is a link to the sling hook story as well as a fairly good bio on the company and how I got started.
http://forums.thecmp.org/showthread.php?t=143280

Within the overhead, our product liability insurance policy has been going through the roof.

All equipment used to produce the slings are the same models and make as were used by Rock Island Arsenal, Boyt, Hickock, Enger Kress, ect.
Our creasing machine is a Randall Harness Mfg. 1887, and was one of the models that was used at the various arsenal harness shops. It has been documented as having come out of one of the arsenals, just don't know which. One of the key features to this machine is it is built backwards from the civilian models of that era, so it is easy to distinguish. It rolls the back (flesh) side of the sling and roll presses the crease down both edges of the sling on the grain side. This is a two step operation. You will never see any loose nap or rough edges on any of our first run slings.

The sling is sewn with a Campbell Harness Stitcher (Needle Awl Machine) (Circa 1890s) serial number #759, is in the range of some of the Campbells that were sold to the Ordnance Dept. in that era.

The keepers are hand stitched one stitch at a time (7 to 8 stitches per inch), and are the first cuts off the back bone edge, which has the least stretch and is the densest part of the hide. It takes just as much time to make and stitch one pair of keepers as it does the rest of the sling.

Our 18" fixed blade splitter was made by the International Harness Co., Cincinnati, OH, mfg in the late 1870s. Is has an arsenal inventory data plate braded to the cast iron frame, just don't know which arsenal.

Our punch machine is an Alva Allen 5 ton, equipped with a cam operated reciprocating attachment, which indexes the strap for each pair of holes. I use three of these machines (set up for various operations), and they are identical to the ones Boyt used during their WWII production. These machines have been dated to the 1930s. All holes are the correct oblong type as on the original slings.

The thread used is NOS U.S. Issue (1950s-1960s) natural linen (wheat color) 8/4 MRT Left Twist, as was originally used, waxed as it passes through the machine.

As far as I know, we are the only manufacturer who is turning out M1907 Slings on original equipment to WWI and WWII Rock Island Arsenal Drawing Specs, with all U.S. materials. We are always shooting for quality, accuracy, and attention to detail. All and all, it just depends on how accurate and correct you want a reproduction to be. It also makes a big difference in the quality and cut of the leather.

Some times we get backlogged on orders as the shop consist of (3) myself, the wife, and Stuart (17), when he is not involved in school, sports, or the Scouts.

Let us know if we can help.

Semper Fi,

Richard L. Turner

[bobinmich]

Thank you, Richard for the very informative post. I have several Turner slings and have been totally pleased with them. An honest, quality product made in U.S.A.

[psteinmayer]

Amen to that! I have actually spoken with Richard, AND his wife a few times now. They are extremely helpful, and even took the time (more than 45 minute on the phone the first time I called) to help me figure a couple things out when I was first getting started using a sling... something other manufacturers don't seem to be interested in doing - which adds up to amazing customer service in my book!!! Turner's gets MY complete support, and will always get my endorsement too!!!

[Andouille]

I know that $70 plus for leather rifle slings seems ridiculous to some; however, I feel the same way about some of the high-tec nylon tactical slings which are commanding $80 plus, not to mention what my plummer and truck mechanic charge per hour. Here are some factors that affect pricing.


Richard L. Turner

We are lucky to have a quality sling available at Turner's pricing.

Without regard to the mechanics of how Turner's manufacture their products, here are the real world factors that affect (or perhaps, that eee-ffect) quality and pricing.

You can have it quick, you can have it cheap, and you can have it with quality.

But, at best, you absolutely will only get two of the three at any given time.

And in my experience, if you want quality, it won't ever be cheap, and will never, ever be quick.

Some people report mileage that varies, but if so, I would like to know where they buy their gas, and if their results are repeatable.

[fogerty]

Turner slings are also certified for CMP competitive matches.

[Fred]

Here's something on Turner Slings that I posted on the 1903 Springfield Forum...

My rifle is sporting a new sling that Richard Turner made for my Rod Bayonet 1903. It's dead on accurate as to dimensions. Exactly 52" long like the originals. He even coated the brass parts with an original type finish that was used. I don't think that anyone else is currently making early correct type slings for the Rod Bayonet 1903 Springfield rifles. These slings would also have been used on the very first updated 1903's that were still in the original 30-03 caliber as well as those that were coming off of the line around 1906 and maybe even 1907 for a time.
This sling is unmatched in Quality in every way! If you are wanting the best sling as well as the most Historicly Accurate sling for your collectable rifle, you should get a Turner Sling. You'll be glad you did.

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c72/Whitedog333/Test5_zpsbcaa6756.jpg (http://s25.photobucket.com/user/Whitedog333/media/Test5_zpsbcaa6756.jpg.html)

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c72/Whitedog333/test6_zpsb456fc91.jpg (http://s25.photobucket.com/user/Whitedog333/media/test6_zpsb456fc91.jpg.html)

[Griff Murphey]

I have two Les Tam NM slings. I trade those out on my match rifles, I never shoot more than three guns usually the M-1, 03, and M1898. I have some of his "issue" slings which he discourages for match use and yes they are really too soft. I have all my old slings I used back in the day like Hunter brand, one or two Freelands sold, nothing can compare with the Tam tho I have not tried the Turners. I understand there is a long wait for Tam slings now.

There is a break in period on Tam slings.

I have a couple of old GI slings I use in three gun to polish my image of a fat old fart using old timey stuff like the M-1A, an AR with a Leupold, 97 Chinchester trench, etc. basically ok to use as carrying straps, but not for position. Surplus stores in the 60's had barrels of ww2 surplus slings you could buy for nothing. Quite frequently they were rotten and "the sling broke!" was a common alibi in NRA highpower rapid fire.