Four USMC slings...

[Fred]

Here are photo's of Four 1907 slings that were made exclusively for the United States Marine Corps. I now have four of them and don't even own a 1903 Springfield or M1 Garand rifle with USMC provenance. I just wanted to share photo's of them with anyone who's interested in the subject.
Richard Turner told me that this type sling was probably made on the West Coast by a saddle maker on a Marine base back in the 1920's and 1930's.
Lots of photo's exist of such slings mounted on the rifles of Marines in the early days of WWII.
OK, I guess that I'll be on the look out for a Garand or an 03 that was a USMC issued and used rifle.
Oh, the rifle with the sling on it came with that sling mounted on it. The rifle is a Mint 1920 National Match 1903 with a barrel date of 11-19 and a serial number of 1181006.

Here is an old CMP post on the subject by Richard Turner...

"The M1907 Sling you have is one that was unique to the USMC. Best we can determine, it was made and used in the 1920s and 1930s by some USMC Units. I'll have to dig them up, but I have a couple of archive photos of Marines sporting this style sling on M1903s. I ran into a gentleman at one of the Big Reno Gun Shows years ago who had several and had done some homework on these. I made several for him off of an original which was in excellent condition.

Most of these have been found on the West Coast and it is believed that the USMC had these produced by a unit saddler or local harness shop for individual units. I made detailed sketches from the slings he provided and will post more information and photos as soon as I locate them.

Carbine Kid, don't let anything happen to it as it is a rare bird and is sought after by several collectors of USMC equipment.

Regards,

Richard L. Turner"

Fred

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c72/Whitedog333/slings1_zps153f1084.png (http://s25.photobucket.com/user/Whitedog333/media/slings1_zps153f1084.png.html)

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c72/Whitedog333/slings2_zps492bc1ab.jpg (http://s25.photobucket.com/user/Whitedog333/media/slings2_zps492bc1ab.jpg.html)

[Fred]

Here are some photo's posted by Richard Turner and another poster about the slings.


Fred:
Great photos of rifle and sling. I called Steven Miller today, who is also a former Marine, he is the gentleman who first brought these slings to my attention years ago. He is sending me several archive photos of Marines who have this particular sling on their M1903 rifles. I asked if he had any additional info on the slings and he stated all he had come up with is that they were unique to the USMC, primarily West Coast Marines. The Marines were training Recruits at Camp Matthews and Camp Elliott, San Diego, CA, (prior to the establishment of Camp Pendleton) in the 1920s, 1930s, and 1940s, and in the early days they had horse Marines and saddlers at the post. Mere speculation, but these slings may have been produced in house, since there are no markings or makers stamps.
Here is one photo I found that definitely has at least one recruit sporting the USMC Sling on his 03, the Marine on the left, 1st row. I believe several others in the photo have the same sling, but the image is not as clear.
As soon as I receive the photos from Steven Miller, I will post them along with any additional info he may have.
Richard
http://www.thomas5.com/tribute/images/lazaro/mlplatoon135.jpg

[Fred]

Here are more photos of this style sling in use 1940-1945

http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f3...psb37bdb66.jpg (http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f358/carbinekid/WWII/JME-BootPlatoon1_zpsb37bdb66.jpg)

http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f3...ps333f5a12.jpg (http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f358/carbinekid/WWII/TopSherry3_zps333f5a12.jpg)

http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f3...pscb800bf7.jpg (http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f358/carbinekid/WWII/1943mcrd_san_diego_platoon_20111126_1778924019_zps cb800bf7.jpg)

http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f3...psd5d5a25a.jpg (http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f358/carbinekid/WWII/BootCamp_zpsd5d5a25a.jpg)

http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f3...psccfa60a6.jpg (http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f358/carbinekid/WWII/1944_mcrd_san_diego_platoon_20111126_1357540916_zp sccfa60a6.jpg)

http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f3...ps1cb87481.jpg (http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f358/carbinekid/WWII/1943_mcrd_san_diego_platoon_20111126_1355583993_zp s1cb87481.jpg)

http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f3...psebcdbf51.jpg (http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f358/carbinekid/WWII/1942_mcrd_san_diego_platoo_20111126_1355020072_zps ebcdbf51.jpg)

http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f3...psb0c4a204.jpg (http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f358/carbinekid/WWII/1941mcrd_san_diegoplatoon_177_20140730_1627424733_ zpsb0c4a204.jpg)

http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f3...psebfacb64.jpg (http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f358/carbinekid/WWII/1940_mcrd_san_diego_platoo_20111126_1533916885_zps ebfacb64.jpg)

http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f3...psaf4a4bae.jpg (http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f358/carbinekid/WWII/1941mcrd_san_diego_platoon_20111126_1677571450_zps af4a4bae.jpg)

http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f3...psc7b8bcd8.jpg (http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f358/carbinekid/WWII/1941_mcrd_san_diego_platoon_18_20120222_1058138259 _zpsc7b8bcd8.jpg)

http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f3...psb494dd04.jpg (http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f358/carbinekid/WWII/1941mcrd_san_diego_platoon_20111126_16775714501_zp sb494dd04.jpg)

http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f3...ps731299e4.jpg (http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f358/carbinekid/WWII/1941_mcrd_san_diego_platoo_20111126_1739872646_zps 731299e4.jpg)

[Fred]

The following photo and post was posted by Richard Turner on the CMP forum about this sling...
Also was pointed to this photo, which appears in the book "Guadacanal Diary". This photo is quite grainy, but have been told in the archive photo you can tell the short strap only shows two visible pair of holes in this view.
Richard
http://www.ushistoryscene.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/U.S._Marine_on_Guadalcanal_in_World_War_II.jpg

[gulliver62]

Very cool pieces of history you have there and with great documentation to go with them.
Nice finds.

[Fred]

Glad that you like the post!

[Richard Turner/Turner Saddlery]

Fred:

Finally got around to scanning the photos that Steve Miller let me borrow concerning the USMC M1907 Slings.

All visible slings in this photo are the USMC M1907 variation.
http://i1273.photobucket.com/albums/y417/tursad/USMC%20M1907%20Sling/scan0002_zps0smmjbga.jpg (http://s1273.photobucket.com/user/tursad/media/USMC%20M1907%20Sling/scan0002_zps0smmjbga.jpg.html)

All visible slings in this photo are the USMC M1907 variation.
http://i1273.photobucket.com/albums/y417/tursad/USMC%20M1907%20Sling/scan0003_zps3kluu2fh.jpg (http://s1273.photobucket.com/user/tursad/media/USMC%20M1907%20Sling/scan0003_zps3kluu2fh.jpg.html)

All visible slings in this photo are the USMC M1907 variation.
http://i1273.photobucket.com/albums/y417/tursad/USMC%20M1907%20Sling/scan0004_zpsbgomm08k.jpg (http://s1273.photobucket.com/user/tursad/media/USMC%20M1907%20Sling/scan0004_zpsbgomm08k.jpg.html)

All visible slings in this photo are the USMC M1907 variation.
http://i1273.photobucket.com/albums/y417/tursad/USMC%20M1907%20Sling/scan0009_zpsl0tyhelw.jpg (http://s1273.photobucket.com/user/tursad/media/USMC%20M1907%20Sling/scan0009_zpsl0tyhelw.jpg.html)

Mixed slings.
http://i1273.photobucket.com/albums/y417/tursad/USMC%20M1907%20Sling/scan0007_zpsor1rmlt7.jpg (http://s1273.photobucket.com/user/tursad/media/USMC%20M1907%20Sling/scan0007_zpsor1rmlt7.jpg.html)

No USMC M1907 Slings/All M1 Garands
http://i1273.photobucket.com/albums/y417/tursad/USMC%20M1907%20Sling/scan0008_zpsalebwnuc.jpg (http://s1273.photobucket.com/user/tursad/media/USMC%20M1907%20Sling/scan0008_zpsalebwnuc.jpg.html)

For comparison, Platoon 331, MCRD Parris Island, SC, June 1942, No USMC M1907 Slings.
http://i1273.photobucket.com/albums/y417/tursad/USMC%20M1907%20Sling/scan0005_zpsfoyr3va2.jpg (http://s1273.photobucket.com/user/tursad/media/USMC%20M1907%20Sling/scan0005_zpsfoyr3va2.jpg.html)

Steve Miller article from the Spring 2004 GCA Journal titled "Marine Variation of '07 Sling?
http://i1273.photobucket.com/albums/y417/tursad/USMC%20M1907%20Sling/scan0010_zpsq6rjs6d0.jpg (http://s1273.photobucket.com/user/tursad/media/USMC%20M1907%20Sling/scan0010_zpsq6rjs6d0.jpg.html)
http://i1273.photobucket.com/albums/y417/tursad/USMC%20M1907%20Sling/scan0012_zpsnesldvas.jpg (http://s1273.photobucket.com/user/tursad/media/USMC%20M1907%20Sling/scan0012_zpsnesldvas.jpg.html)

[Johnny P]

USMC 1907 sling showing the staple in addition to the sewn keeper. Also show is a USMC cleaning set dating from the early 1950's.

http://i61.tinypic.com/2m5cfmx.jpg
http://i59.tinypic.com/25hq06o.jpg
http://i61.tinypic.com/24300er.jpg

[Fred]

Cool! Great photo's too! Thanks.

[Fred]

I just noticed that this group has a mix of 1903's and M1's in it.

http://i1273.photobucket.com/albums/y417/tursad/USMC%20M1907%20Sling/scan0005_zpsfoyr3va2.jpg (http://s1273.photobucket.com/user/tursad/media/USMC%20M1907%20Sling/scan0005_zpsfoyr3va2.jpg.html)[/

[Richard Turner/Turner Saddlery]

Fred:

Here are some photos I took of the USMC M1907 Sling you let me borrow.
Your USMC M1907 Sling has seen very little use and negligible stretch,
making it the perfect example for comparison to the Rock Island Arsenal
Specifications for the M1907 Sling.

This is the feed end of the long strap. If you notice, the first pair
of holes are 2" from the end and 1.25" center to center, whereas the
originals are 3/4" from the end and 1.19" center to center. The
original specs for the M1907 Sling called for 10 pairs of holes beginning at the feed end and this
one has 12. The hole diameter is this sling is 11/64" round vice oblong
per Rock Island Specifications.
http://i1273.photobucket.com/albums/y417/tursad/USMC%20M1907%20Sling/IMG_4611_zpsybzi1i1w.jpg (http://s1273.photobucket.com/user/tursad/media/USMC%20M1907%20Sling/IMG_4611_zpsybzi1i1w.jpg.html)

This is the hook (frog) end of the long strap. As you can see, there are 6 pair of holes vice the usual 16 pair as per Rock Island Specifications. Cut length of the long strap (leather from end to end) is 50" inches, whereas, the Rock Island Specifications called for 47" inches overall including hook (frog). The thickness of the leather is noticeably thicker than standard. This sling is a fairly even 9 3/4 oz. thickness throughout its length, measured with a leather caliper/leather gage. The issue thickness called for 7 to 9 oz. leather, with most encountered being 8 oz. One ounce weight in leather thickness equates to 1/64" inch, therefore a piece of leather measuring 8 oz. is 1/8" (8/64") thick. This method in measuring leather is based on the old English measurement system in that a section of hide cut 12" X 12" weighed on a set of scales should give an approximate thickness in the leather, i.e., if this cut piece weighs 9 oz. on the scales, it should measure out to be 9/64" thick as a rule of practice. The majority of the USMC M1907 Slings I have encountered, as this one, are made of Harness Leather instead of Collar or Strap Leather as the original specifications required. They tend to be black instead of tan. The slings do not appear to have been dyed, but blackened with a black stain which is mixed with Harness Oil. This is a more colorfast method of blackening leather and most military saddlers used this method to blacken leather where regulations called for the leather to be black. After awhile the color would lighten up through use and the oil blackening solution would have to be reapplied. This method is still used by the Amish Harness Makers today, as the oil blackening method is a lot easier on the leather surface, not making it as stiff as dying, and does not tend to have as much rub-off as dyed leather does when it is oiled.
http://i1273.photobucket.com/albums/y417/tursad/USMC%20M1907%20Sling/IMG_4614_zpsfrhcpnno.jpg (http://s1273.photobucket.com/user/tursad/media/USMC%20M1907%20Sling/IMG_4614_zpsfrhcpnno.jpg.html)

The short strap measured out to an even 9 3/4 oz. thickness as well, with two pair of holes evenly spaced on either end, for a total of 4 pair of holes punched in the short strap. The Rock Island Specifications called for 16 pair of oblong holes evenly spaced (1.19" inches), with the first pair beginning 2 3/4" to 3" from the hook end of the strap. The first pair of holes on this sling begin 4 1/2" inches from the hook end and overall length of the strap minus the hardware is 24" inches, where the Rock Island straps are 24" inches overall including the hardware.
http://i1273.photobucket.com/albums/y417/tursad/USMC%20M1907%20Sling/IMG_4613_zpskre5zeos.jpg (http://s1273.photobucket.com/user/tursad/media/USMC%20M1907%20Sling/IMG_4613_zpskre5zeos.jpg.html)
http://i1273.photobucket.com/albums/y417/tursad/USMC%20M1907%20Sling/IMG_4612_zpsj5mqpgu4.jpg (http://s1273.photobucket.com/user/tursad/media/USMC%20M1907%20Sling/IMG_4612_zpsj5mqpgu4.jpg.html)

The keepers are 3/4" inch in width and measure 5 1/2 oz. in thickness. They are machine sewn 7 to 8 stitches per inch and each have a cobblers tack (shoe nail) fastened in the center. This is the first set of keepers I have encountered with the cobblers tacks. Others have a plain staple in the center, which is known as a keeper staple, more commonly used on commercial keepers to join the ends vice sewing. These tacks or staples were not used for reinforcement, but to ease sewing an assembled piece of leather. Most of the time they were pulled out, but some manufcturers left them in place as seen in these examples. If you notice in the photo below, there is a visible tack hole in the sewn tab of the short strap, where the tack has been removed after sewing. This is/was a common practice for production, readying for sewing, whereas, one worker would ready materials for sewing by tacking/holding the piece in place so the machine operator wouldn't have to position the hardware or piece when he was ready to sew. None of the specs called for gluing either the keepers or tab of the short strap, so using tacks or staples would ease production.
http://i1273.photobucket.com/albums/y417/tursad/USMC%20M1907%20Sling/IMG_4616_zpsqvrewdg6.jpg (http://s1273.photobucket.com/user/tursad/media/USMC%20M1907%20Sling/IMG_4616_zpsqvrewdg6.jpg.html)

Richard