NM Barrel Markings

[XLF30]

Hi,

Right now, there is a barreled receiver on Gunbroker, Item # 467595378, which is a "National Match" barreled receiver. The photo actually shows a stamp "WN" near the chamber, purported to be "NM", but upside-down, by the seller. Nothing near the gas cylinder or muzzle. Barrel is SA 2/45, receiver is SA 3.47 million.

In my correspondence with seller, seller maintains this is a gov't-applied NM stamp and challenged me to disprove it. My only evidence is that the NM program started around 1953 (not 1945), barrels were stamped "NM" near the gas cylinder, none were stamped upside-down near the chamber, and the receivers were mostly in the 5.8 to low 6 million range. IMHO all evidence points to the contrary. CMP certificate does not describe assembly as NM.

Anybody who knows a lot about NM stuff please chime in. I think the seller may be honestly mistaken and may have mistaken this "WN" for an upside-down "NM". If anyone knows what the "WN" stands for, that would be even better.

Thanks

[Jay Johnson]

Two points:

1) I have never observed an authentic 1940's era M1 Garand national match marked barrel. With that said, the barrels for early Type 1 national match rifles were chosen from Springfield Armory stock, these early NM barrels were not made to be national match barrels, these barrels were standard Springfield M1 Garand barrels that met match grade specifications and were hand marked "NM" on the left side of the barrel between the gas cylinders mounting rings, some were also marked with a star adjacent the "NM" markings.

2) Later national match production barrels were specifically drawn and manufactured to be national match barrels and I have observed some of them with hand stamped "NM" marks on the right side below the wood line near the breech, these later national match production barrels were also marked "NM" on the left side of the barrel between the gas cylinder mounting rings. Because these later national match barrels were specifically drawn and manufactured to be national match barrels none of them will have a 1940's era barrel date.

Bottom line, I do not believe the barrel in the auction item is an authentic national match barrel.

[gulliver62]

The old "I have only my word as to what it is and you need to prove I am wrong." I have never seen one marked like that, including the ones on the shelves at Aniston. I have seen no reference to it in Duff, Harrison or Riesch/Poyer. I did not think (I have not checked this) that the NM rifles used older barrels either. Being only the B/R and with a >3 MW, whether it is an NM or not I would not see it as worth significant $$. The seller descriptions seem to be up and up on several other items he has so it is sad to see that they are pushing what as a minimum is an opinion rather than a documented fact with that marking. I believe you can find out the s/n of rifles that were built as NM. Someone here will know that.

[Ted Brown]

The National Match rifle program started in the early 50s. Barrels were selected by air gauging standard issue barrels of new manufacture at Springfield Armory. WWII barrels would not be used. While most NM barrels were engraved NM on the left side between the gas cylinder rings, some early barrels have been found with NM hand stamped on the right side in the chamber area. It's thought that this practice may not have been used by Springfield, but may have been used by armorers at Ft. Benning in the MTU. It's possible that a letter could have been stamped upside down, but in this case, a WWII barrel raises serious doubts.

[BigMo]

I saw that too.............
I decided the same thing, the seller is mistaken, and instead of arguing- just don't bid on it. :)

[Johnny P]

A 1945 dated barrel ending up as a NM barrel is highly questionable at best, and the markings even more so. Best to just politely walk away.

[fogerty]

I wouldn't deal with someone who wants me to disprove a negative, instead of offering his proof. If your thinking of buying it, don't.

[JohnF]

The referenced NM marking and depth appears to be very even like a pantograph machine made it, but what do I know. The markings on NM rifles were stamped and engraved and not very even and joined together like the one shown in the auction. Most of us can produce empirical evidence to back up our statements and view points, but I don't think he can. While I will not say "never", the marking in the auction looks to be wishful thinking at best.

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[Johnny P]

According to the original post the M was an upside down W. All the NM barrel markings I have seen have been an M with vertical outside legs and not an upside down W.

[garandeguy10]

I have a couple on Garands, one that appears to be a Team built H&R NM rifle with a LMR barrel that have small serif font "NM" hand stamped at the left side of the chamber near the barrel ID markings. I always assumed that meant National Match. Both rifles shoot extremely well. I have also seen several other Garand barrels with small serif font "NM" stamped on the chamber.

The barreled receiver in the Gunbroker ad appears to have a san-serif upside down "NM" that does not look like the markings I have seen.

[2111]

NM replacement barrels are stamped somewhat as this one. These barrels were found to be within NM specs and used by military team armorers in building/rebuilding team match rifles. I believe they were also available through DCM to the civilian population. It is not a barrel that was originally assembled at SA on NM rifles.

Just looked at GB. Sold for $ 430.00. Looks as advertised to me "USGI M1 Garand barreled receiver. Purchased from CMP is 2006. Serial number 3475659 with SA 2 45 marked barrel. Barrel is marked "NM" National Match. Bore is frosted but no significant rust. Muzzle wear measures over 3, throat measures 4."

After taking a 2nd look at this barrel I tend to agree with GarandGuy10. Here is a picture of a replacement NM marked barrel.
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[Cosine26]

Hi 2111
The picture you show is on a match M1 built for me by a Ft. Bliss armorer. I still have the rifle- shoots as well as my NM M1. He had a large stock of these barrels and I bought two or three from him. They were furnished to team armorers for re-barreling team rifles. Unfortunately they are long gone. The time frame was mid 1960's. NM M1 barrels were available through the DCM, but I never bought one so do not know how they were marked.
FWIW

[Cosine26]

2111
I hate to disagree with you, but the barrel on my NM M1 that I ordered through the DCM in 1962 has exactly the same markings that is in the picture above with the following differences:
1. The N and M are separately struck and are not in line
2. There is a "star" located closer to the receiver end just by the NM marking
3. There is a "P" (proof") stamped on the breech end of the barrel followed by a "T" (targeted).These are just randomly struck
4. The barrel date is 8 54 instead of 4 54
5. On the left side of the barrel between the gas cylinder rings it is inscribed "NM". I believe that this was done when the rifle was accepted as a NM M1 at the Armory
I have owed the rifle since August 1962 and it has never ben re-barreled. It came to me directly from ERIE ORD DEP, PORT CLINFPN, OHIO. I have every reason to believe that it was built at Springfield. I have all of the documentation.
FWIW

[2111]

I don't see any disagreement. The picture I posted of your barrel is a replacement barrel, found to be to NM specs and stamped NM in the date area, as you say.
The star on your NM rifle is the code for a NM rifle built at SA for the 1962 shooting season. The NM close to the star was ONLY used on those NM rifles built for 1962.
It is the opinion of Bob Seijas that the NM marking in the barrel date area of the 1962 rifles was stamped on "newly assembled" rifles and that rebuilt NM rifles often only show the star.
As you said the NM marking between the rings of the gas cylinder is placed on the barrel at SA after the rifle has passed all tests and is accepted as a NM rifle.

When I said "It is not a barrel that was originally assembled at SA on NM rifles." I was talking about the barrel on G.B., pictured below, that this thread started with. That one is a SA 1945
barrel. I said I agreed with GarandGuy10 who said "The barreled receiver in the Gunbroker ad appears to have a san-serif upside down "NM" that does not look like the markings I have seen."
In fact, in looking at that barrel and receiver, it appears that the 2 of 45 barrel could be original to the 3475659 serial numbered receiver. In that case it surely is not even a match replacement barrel. I think someone with a few stamps just stamped the barrel.


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[Cosine26]

I Agree. I cannot address the originally pictured barrel.

[BHillman]

The guy who stamped the bbl is dyslexic.

Bruce