View Full Version : Another M1922 Springfield
Hello,
I purchased this rifle and although I have researched some over the last few years it would interest me how much of this rifle is original.
The things that I know about it are the barrel is marked 10/26 and the receiver is marked M1922MI. I think it is a NRA sales rifles as the barrel is D&T rearward of the stock band. That's about it,so if there are any experts out there, I would be highly appreciative of your thoughts on my new rifle....good or bad.
p.s. The rifle weighs 9#'s,LOP is 13.5 " and barrel length is 24"
One thing that interested me was this looks to have been upgraded to the M2 standards, but the receiver was not marked as such. Also the receiver looks blacked and the barrel rust blued? The rear sight is a Lyman 48C? But I don't know if the front sight is correct.
Does the #9023 show up in the DCM sales records? In what configuration?
Yes it Did:
9022M1N 100129DCM RIFLE SALES 1922-42
9023M1N 120729DCM RIFLE SALES 1922-42 NRA SALES SAMPLE
9024M1N 112929DCM RIFLE SALES 1922-42
http://i385.photobucket.com/albums/oo297/Fast996/ccfa89fc-21a4-4916-a437-e9dfe19df24c_zpsfrhnqtb1.jpg
http://i385.photobucket.com/albums/oo297/Fast996/Mobile%20Uploads/1922m1i_zps4sjamkex.png
http://i385.photobucket.com/albums/oo297/Fast996/Mobile%20Uploads/1922m1j_zpsiesjtc2p.png
http://i385.photobucket.com/albums/oo297/Fast996/Mobile%20Uploads/1922m1h_zpsxno2h461.png
http://i385.photobucket.com/albums/oo297/Fast996/Mobile%20Uploads/1922m1d_zpsjxyeegjf.png
http://i385.photobucket.com/albums/oo297/Fast996/Mobile%20Uploads/1922m1e_zps4ez8bjdt.png
http://i385.photobucket.com/albums/oo297/Fast996/Mobile%20Uploads/1922m1c_zpsibris5eq.png
I believe you have a bit of a "mongrel" there . . . .
Being that the receiver is blued, marked M1, and drilled and tapped for the rear scope base, it might be a "sales" rifle (as is the stock) . . . but . . .
My M1 sales rifle looks just like yours . . . . except for the barrel.
My M1 sales rifle does NOT have the caliber inscription on the breech-end of the barrel . . . I think only the "issue" type had this inscription.
When Herschel Garner weighs in on you rifle, he will straighten us BOTH out on your rifle.
I also have the M2 bolt and magazine (as well as the original, matching serial, M1 bolt/magazine), so I can switch from the M1 to M2 configuration at will.
Never-the-less, you have a dandy rifle there . . . it should serve you well! --Jim
Thanks Jim,
You are talking about the "long rifle markings on the barrel? Does your rifle have the M1922MI marking too,with the same style bolt and markings? Also I think this receiver looks to be "blacked",but since it is still in shipment,it could be blued.- Roger
Yes, Roger, I am talking about the "long rifle cart'ge only" marking. (My rifle lacks this marking on the barrel.)
My rifle has the very same M1922M1 receiver marking also.
I believe your rifle originally had a M1 bolt and magazine (as has mine) that was serialed to the receiver.
The "black" color of your receiver is likewise the same as mine . . . that's why I believe your receiver (and possibly the barrel also) is ORIGINAL finish from the armory.
Is the bolt "trough" or "raceway" of the receiver "bright"? (I'm thinking it is.) If so, I believe it is NOT refinished.
Is the bolt serialed to the receiver?
I'm of the opinion that your rifle is an armory-produced, "sales" version that was converted to the M2 configuration using an "issue"-style barrel that was blued (rather than parkerized), and somehow escaped the M2 stamping on the receiver.
It could, however, have had its' barrel replaced with a blued "issue" type OUTSIDE of the armory . . . hence the lack of M2 marking on the receiver ring.
It also could be that the early "sales" rifles DID have the "long rifle" stamping on the breech end . . . I just don't know--I'm still learning!
As I said, when Herschel sees this thread and your great-looking rifle, he will give us his take and we BOTH will have the correct "scoop"!
He is the modern-day "guru" of all things Springfield Model of 1922!! --Jim
Hello Jim,
Yes the bolt matches and about the barrel,it is dated 10/26 which would be correct I think for the serial number on the receiver. I think I have seen some sales rifles with that LR cart'ge marking. I found this info on the net.....
"The U.S. Rifle, Cal. .22 M1922M1 (N.R.A.) as made for sale to NRA members differed from the issue version in that it was fitted with the Model 1922 NRA-style American walnut pistol grip stock assembly and the barrel and action components, exclusive of the bolt body, were blued or blackened rather than Parkerized. Body of the bolt was polished bright and was etched with the serial number of the receiver. The barrel and receiver were drilled and tapped for scope blocks, 7.2" on centers."
Now the receiver and barrel look like they are not the same,but like you say Herschal would have probably come across a similiar rifle. Thanks
Jim, I found this gun. It is a later serialised M1 more like a transition,but it does have the LR cart'g marking. This gun is later so it looks to be rust blued.
http://www.gunauction.com/buy/12928703
Kragrifle
03-31-2015, 05:33
The finish on this rifle appears original. This is the later receiver markings, changed from the first style so that the drilling would not obscure the markings. The caliber markings were added on later 1922M1's, but off hand I cannot remember when this occurred. Yours is an NRA version of the 1922M1 that has simply had the bolt replaced with a late M2 bolt (note the ability to adjust the headspace?) This could have been done at Springfield, or later by a previous owner. There were a few 1922M1/M2 rifles produced, but these are not simply rifles with later bolts added as suggested in an article by Butch Eyberg. These M1/M2's were later, totally different rifles with later dated barrels with blued metal.
The NRA rifles you mention were a totally different rifle as well. These rifles will have the NRA stock, but will have a parkerized finish. The list of serial numbers of these rifles was available from Springfield Research in the past.
The front sight you mentioned looks to have been filed down for a lower profile. Probably so the rear peep need not be positioned excessively high to have a better "cheek weld" with the stock comb.
Emri
Kragrifle
03-31-2015, 06:33
Sorry,
The NRA rifles I referred to above are the NRA M2's.
Herschel
03-31-2015, 09:06
If the front sight blade has been filed down you might want to replace it. It is the same sight blade used on the 1903 rifles. They are readily available and inexpensive..
There is not much I can say that has not already been said about rifle. If the headspace adjustment screw head has been covered with soft metal that would be pretty good circumstantial evidence that the bolt was installed by SA.
If the front sight blade has been filed down you might want to replace it. It is the same sight blade used on the 1903 rifles. They are readily available and inexpensive..
There is not much I can say that has not already been said about rifle. If the headspace adjustment screw head has been covered with soft metal that would be pretty good circumstantial evidence that the bolt was installed by SA.
Thanks again Herschel
mannparks
03-31-2015, 11:19
Herschel, would not that stock be to early for that receiver?
Charles
Herschel
03-31-2015, 03:29
No. That is an NRA stock, which is also referred to as the 1922 stock. It came out on the original Model of 1922 rifles. It was also used on the 1922M1 Sales Variation Rifles, the 1922M1 DCM Club Issue rifles and the M2 Sales Variation.
Herschel
03-31-2015, 04:54
Roger, The 1922M1 on gunauction that you provided the link for is one that was equipped with the early type M2 bolt. I noticed that the receiver marking was not changed from 1922M1 to 1922MII. This was one of the type that Butch Eyberg referred to in his 1985 Man At Arms magazine article as "Transition Models". These were late production 1922M1's that were fitted with the M2 bolt and magazine before leaving SA as new items.
Your rifle has the late type M2 bolt and is a earlier production 1922M1 so it would not fit into the transition rifle category.
Herschel those transition guns seem to be more common than I thought. This rifle # 20486 was also a transition I believe,although I didn't know it at the time I wanted to bid on it. It is interesting that you place my gun in the "transition" category. Have you given any thought as to their rarity?
http://poulinantiques.auctionflex.com/showlot.ap?co=23431&weid=48491&weiid=16753289&lso=pricedesc&pagenum=32&lang=En
After reading the descrition given about the stock maybe not , but IIRC this rifle had the early M2 bolt and was listed in the SRS.
Herschel
03-31-2015, 07:55
I must be careful in my proofreading of my posts. I intended to say #9023 would not be in the transition category.
Eyberg listed over 80 transition guns by serial number. He did not include the serial number of one that I own.
You have an interesting rifle coming. I am looking forward to hearing more about it when you get it in hand.
#20486 is listed by serial number in the article as being a transition rifle.
A bit of trivia: Some of the last Model of 1922 rifles produced had the 1922M1 bolt and magazine. I own one of them and know of one other.
I have read three documents from the period that confirm the 1922 Models with 1922M1 bolts were produced.
Herschel my rifle is #9023
Herschel
03-31-2015, 08:05
#9023 is what I looked up in the SRS records. I am making too many errors. I had better sign off for the evening.
Kragrifle
04-01-2015, 05:15
The 22 cal Springfield did not sell that quickly. Often rifles would sit at Springfield waiting for a buyer. When the rifle was sold it was usually upgraded before going out the door, hence the 1922 rifles with 1922M1 bolts. As Herschel has stated, there are documented rifles. In the same manner you will find 1922M1 NRA versions with the early M2 bolts. These are the rifles Butch Eyberg observed. Again, there is an actual 1922M1/M2 rifle, but this is a later unique piece. Barrel dates run into the M2 production run and metal has a very nice rust blue finish. I have observed barrel dates of 1935 and 1937. Stock are the NRA style.
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