Cracked Stock

[psteinmayer]

Ok, I've found a crack. Yesterday while working on a lighter load and finding a new POI, I discovered a crack in the wrist area of my Krag. This morning, while cleaning, I confirmed that the crack goes from under the magazine well area back on both sides. I can actually flex the stock to slightly open the crack, making it very easy to see. I need to fix this as this Krag is my CMP Match favorite!!! Most of you who know me know how important this particular Krag is to me. I've attached a couple pictures to show the cracked area.

Here are a few questions:
1. This Krag has history, having been used in WW1 in 1917/1918, and I am reluctant to refinish the stock... but if it needs to be refinish to fix it, then I am not completely opposed. Should I be refinishing it? Money is a real problem for me right now...
2. Having regularly oiled the rifle when cleaning, I know that there is oil in the cracked area, and when squeezing the stock, can actually see oil seep from the crack. Will this affect the fix?
3. Money is a real problem for me... but am I looking at putting this stock away permanently and replacing it???

I need to have this resolved in time for the Nationals in July... Please help, as I am quite bewildered at this point.

Thanks all

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[gnoahhh]

Fret not, it can be fixed. If it is a recent development oil may not have infiltrated the whole depth and length of the crack. Pry it open as far as you dare and blow it out with compressed air. Use a syringe and inject acetone and blow it out again. Do whatever you need to do to keep the acetone off of the surrounding finish- mask right up to the crack and use plastic wrap on the rest of the wood to absolutely keep the acetone off. After the acetone evaporates out (a few minutes) use the same syringe to inject clear un-thickened epoxy down in as far as you can get it. Another trick is to warm the wood first as that promotes the epoxy to wick into the depths. Un-pry the wood (let it spring shut), carefully wipe away any squeeze out, clamp the crack tightly shut with whatever means is at your disposal. (Heavy duty rubber bands such as one can fashion from bicycle inner tubes work great.) Clean away the squeeze out that clamping will induce. Let cure overnight. Remove clamp. If any squeeze out of hardened epoxy has manifested itself (and it probably will), carefully knock it back with a razor sharp tool of your choosing, and lightly, lightly dodge it with 320-600x paper (re-masking the repair area at this point is a good idea). Remove masking tape, slather it up with linseed oil, and I'll bet your friends will never know it's there. It'll stay shut longer than you will be around to care about it.

[psteinmayer]

There is definitely oil in the crack, so I'll need to clean it out... but this advice is exactly what I was hoping for. The crack may have been there for a little while, but this is the first I have noticed it! Either way, I'll get it fixed. As I said on another forum, I intend on continuing to shoot this Krag for a long time to come.

[jon_norstog]

Good luck there, P. No way should you get a new stock if this one was treating you right at the range. I can't add anything to Gnoahh's advice, except maybe Gorilla Glue as an option as opposed to epoxy.

jn

[gnoahhh]

I frown on Gorilla Glue, especially in an instance like this. Too difficult to get it worked down into the depths of the crack, plus it depends on water moisture for curing and I wouldn't infuse water down in there either.

[madsenshooter]

No Gorrilla Glue! It expands as it dries. Best to drill down from inside the receiver and pump epoxy out. One of my 92/96 rifles has similar cracks that I've been keeping an eye on. I'll have to stabilize them eventually.

[StockDoc]

Acra Glas and Dental picks to work it down into the crack. I suggest using Brake cleaner (aerosol) to clean out the crack, Or solvent in a airbrush to clean out the crack. Let it dry overnight, then apply epoxy.

[dave]

I doubt any of the methods mentioned to clean oil out of crack will be enough if it is soaked into the wood. And if it is the epoxy will not stick. Acra Glass is an epoxy

[gnoahhh]

Maybe, maybe not. Nothing beats a try but a failure. Actually I've been kind of amazed at how well epoxy will bond to some rather spurious wood. I glued a bunch of cracks in an oil soaked Mauser stock 15 years ago and they're still holding tight. Ditto the tang cracks in a couple of hundred year old oil soaked Savage M1899 stocks. My experience with epoxy came mainly in the marine industry- I can't tell you how many 50 gallon drums of the stuff I went through- and some pretty shady looking old teak bonded quite well on numerous occasions. The oil probably hasn't soaked so far down into the depths of this gentleman's crack (geez, that didn't sound right!) so as to obviate a decent bond.

[psteinmayer]

The oil is most likely just near the edge. I'd imagine that its from my wiping the stock down when I clean it. Hopefully, it's not too deep. I picked up some acetone today, as well as a couple cans of compressed air to help dry it out. I have some auto-mix epoxy with a 20 minute set/24 hour cure. If there is a better epoxy to use.... please let me know. I'll work on it this weekend!

[Jim in Salt Lake]

I would stick with the slower cure epoxy you've got, that will give you plenty of working time to carefully get it down in the cracks. I've fixed a lot of cracked wood, mostly furniture, and saved the finish with the advice gnoahhh gave you. Once you've got the glue it, you've got all the time in the world to let it cure. The five minute glue doesn't give you much working time before it starts to set up. And I'd give it more than 24 hours to cure. When you clamp it, it's not necessary to clamp with high pressure, epoxy fills tiny gaps very well and will work better. Patience is the key with a repair like this. Plan out what you're going to do, work your plan, then let the glue cure for a couple of days without dinking with it. I'd only wipe off the initial squeeze out and you can scrape off any additional squeeze out with a sharp tool or scraper as gnoahhh said.

[gnoahhh]

An industry rep told me "most epoxy resin comes out of the same spigot, it's the proprietary hardeners that make the difference." General rule of thumb, the longer the set time the stronger the epoxy. 5-minute has its place, but not here IMO. Unless I'm working with West System Tropical grade, I unclamp in 5-10 hours but don't put stress on the joint for 24 hours (that gives me a head start on sanding- a moot point in the Krag situation).

You can use some of that bottled compressed air to blow epoxy down into the crack as well as blow flotsam and jetsam out. Don't be afraid to pry that crack open as far as you dare- it's more important to give yourself plenty of work space than to fret about making the crack a little worse.

[StockDoc]

Use a popsicle stick that has been cut with a scarf on one end, then use that to hold the crack open.

[psteinmayer]

Ok... I've made a couple small wooden wedges to hold the crack open. The most I could get the crack opened is to approximately 0.02 in., so I'm glad it's not too bad. I used an insulin syringe to inject acetone into the cracked areas, and used compressed air (from a computer cleaning can) to aid in the drying. I'm going to allow it to sit for 24 hours, and then repeat this.

I'm then going to carefully drill a small hole (about 0.1 in.) on each side of the stock from the magazine well rearward along the crack about 1/4 inch from the sides of the stock and 1 in. long. This will allow me to be able to inject epoxy into the cracked area which should spread throughout the crack. I'll clamp it and let it cure for a while.

After the epoxy cures for a few days, I'm going to drill two holes - between the trigger slot and each trigger guard screw, and epoxy a hard wood dowel in each hole, which should provide added strength to the repair. The dowels will be carefully measured so as to not touch the action in any way, so I don't violate any CMP rules.

I'll photo-document the entire repair and share with everyone as I go.

[gnoahhh]

Sounds like you're getting it licked. I wouldn't bother with the two dowels though. The bond of the epoxy repair will be stronger than the wood surrounding it, making the addition of dowels superfluous IMO. Good luck! Keep us posted.

[psteinmayer]

I figured that the extra lateral protection would be a good idea... but I agree it's unnecessary.

I went to a wood working store today and picked up some structural epoxy today with a 30-45 minute set time, and 36 hour cure. Also, on the advice of the people there, I will use denatured alcohol to clean out the crack. It evaporates very quickly, and will clean the wood. I was told that the acetone contains a small amount of oil, which could prevent it from cleaning all of the oil from the wood. Attached are a few pictures with the crack opened as wide as I can without damaging it further. As you can see, it's not very wide.

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[psteinmayer]

Ok, the repairs continue...

I drilled a 0.1 dia hole on each side from the magazine well back along the line of the crack. Each hole extends approximately 3/4 inch, but because of the angle, is not perfectly parallel to the side, but rather at a slight angle.

I injected epoxy into the holes until it oozed out of the majority of the cracked area... almost the entire length of the crack. I also used my popsicle stick to try to force epoxy into the rearward areas of the crack where there was less oozing. I scraped the excess epoxy off the sides and in the magazine well and trigger slot areas.

I then secured the crack with several tight rubber bands, and then propped the stock upright and placed a 4 pound divers weight over the cracked area for added pressure. I'll now let that cure for a few days.

Pictures are attached, including one of the epoxy and injector I used.
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[M2Phil]

.Looks great! Straightforward repair, well thought out, using quality materials. Recipe for success.

[Jim in Salt Lake]

+1, looks good. Once you shoot it, let us know how you did!

[SgtSki]

Nice job. Were did you get the apoxy?

[psteinmayer]

I got the epoxy and injector at a woodworking store in Royal Oak, MI. It wasn't cheap either... almost $30 for the kit... but well worth it! I'll have it now in case I need to make future repairs to this, or any other stock.

Incidentally, the stock is good and solid now, and the Krag will be assembled this weekend (I have other commitments during this week). I'll try to hit the range on Saturday and see if I can get sighted back in. More pictures to follow...

[madsenshooter]

Take your screwdriver with you. Shoot some then, check the tightness of the screws. The receiver will settle in a bit, least mine always does after taking the rifle apart.

[DRAGONFLYDF]

it is a little late in this case, but what I found that works great for clamping stock is electrical tape wound around the stock as tight as you can, but the trick is to wind it so the sticky side is OUT.

[psteinmayer]

The Krag went back together yesterday evening. I've loaded up some moderate 150 gr RN loads, and tomorrow I'll hit the range and get her sighted back in.

I found my front sight blade was a little loose also, so I used a C-clamp and some parallel blocks to slightly close the blade post before reinstalling the blade, which worked like a beauty - now my blade is nice and solid! This could have added to my accuracy issues.

I'll post my results tomorrow after my range trip.

[psteinmayer]

Back from the range. I fired some 65 rounds successfully and the stock is nice and solid!

I fired 15 nice mild rounds with 150 gr RNSP bullets, and 50 rounds of 165 gr SP Spitzer bullets that I wanted to use up. Now, here is the interesting thing. I have been trying to work up these Hornady 150 gr RN bullets (45.1 gr IMR4350/CCI 250promer) in an attempt to find a milder round for CMP competitions, but I've had no luck at all with accuracy. With my elevation set for 200 yards, I was still hitting low. The Hornady 165 gr SP Spitzers were loaded up more than 4 years ago (with 38.5 gr IMR4064p/CCI 200), and I wanted to just use them up because the brass was relatively new and I need the brass. I found, however, that these were peppering the center of the target. Bottom line is, I will order some more of these bullets and load up another 50 rounds. I'll shoot them in the match next month, and if it goes like I hope, I may just continue shooting them from here on out! Oh, and since the bullets have a cannelure and I apply a nice mild factory crimp, I have no issues with feeding... they seem to feed like butter!

Here are a few pictures of the Krag stock, now repaired. Enjoy!

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[Mark Daiute]

Paul, thanks so much for posting all this. That's my kinda rifle. It has some of you in it now.

M

[Dan Shapiro]

Sounds like a winner!

[psteinmayer]

Ok, I went ahead and shot the Krag in a CMP match yesterday. I did ok... but mostly, that was me and not the Krag. I use a new load of Hornady 165 grain BTSP spitzers over 36.0 grains of IMR4064 and a CCI 200 primer. The results were encouraging, although I haven't totally abandoned my ole 220 gr loads yet. 80-1X prone, 83-1X rapid (with a saved round), and 71-0X off hand. The stock was nice and solid!

Here's a couple pictures of me shooting prone and off hand.

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[S.B.]

Fret not, it can be fixed. If it is a recent development oil may not have infiltrated the whole depth and length of the crack. Pry it open as far as you dare and blow it out with compressed air. Use a syringe and inject acetone and blow it out again. Do whatever you need to do to keep the acetone off of the surrounding finish- mask right up to the crack and use plastic wrap on the rest of the wood to absolutely keep the acetone off. After the acetone evaporates out (a few minutes) use the same syringe to inject clear un-thickened epoxy down in as far as you can get it. Another trick is to warm the wood first as that promotes the epoxy to wick into the depths. Un-pry the wood (let it spring shut), carefully wipe away any squeeze out, clamp the crack tightly shut with whatever means is at your disposal. (Heavy duty rubber bands such as one can fashion from bicycle inner tubes work great.) Clean away the squeeze out that clamping will induce. Let cure overnight. Remove clamp. If any squeeze out of hardened epoxy has manifested itself (and it probably will), carefully knock it back with a razor sharp tool of your choosing, and lightly, lightly dodge it with 320-600x paper (re-masking the repair area at this point is a good idea). Remove masking tape, slather it up with linseed oil, and I'll bet your friends will never know it's there. It'll stay shut longer than you will be around to care about it.
Please define or give a brand of un-thickened epoxy?I have a Thompson Center Hawkins that needs this treatment.
Steve

[S.B.]

Good info here. Will this epoxy flow down into a very thin crack and can I inject it with an used insulin syringe?
Steve

[psteinmayer]

Hi S.B.

The epoxy I used was definitely not thin. It took quite a bit of force to get it out of the large syringe I used. There's no way you could use an insulin syringe. It is good structural epoxy though, and I imagine that the repair will outlive me! You can see the epoxy I used in an earlier post on this thread. If you have a specific question, please feel free to PM me.

Paul

[S.B.]

Sorry, I should of made myself clearer, the slower(unthickened) setup epoxy I referenced was what gnoahhh mentioned.
Steve

[psteinmayer]

Roger that.

[gnoahhh]

Sorry, I should of made myself clearer, the slower(unthickened) setup epoxy I referenced was what gnoahhh mentioned.
Steve

I use West System epoxy exclusively. I have successfully injected it with syringes, but since I know not which # needle you are using I can't predict if it'll work for you. You can try thinning it a bit with a drop or two of acetone if you can't draw it up into the syringe- but I wouldn't do that if it were a critical structural application, although upon reflection it should be ok for a stock crack repair. Small size West System repair kits can be had reasonably, should you not need a quart/gallon/drum of the stuff.

[psteinmayer]

I can vouch for West Systems. I used to use that years ago when I built aircraft (large models LOL, not the real thing). Good stuff. They just didn't have any when I purchased the stuff I used. The stuff I used was great too, and I would highly recommend it.

[gnoahhh]

I worked for 15 years in a wooden boat shop where we bought the stuff in 50 gallon drums. I should tell you about the dope who left the spigot open on a drum of resin overnight. A 50 gallon puddle of epoxy resin on the floor is a sight to behold!

[psteinmayer]

LOL I bet!