What U.S.M.C. Depot was the origin of so much canvass equipment?

[Fred]

I'm wondering if the rifle case pictured below that I bought in 1981 at the Marine Corps Supply Company in Barstow, California for $5.00 is the same Marine Depot that my 1905 bayonet and scabbard came from. Or was that another Marine Depot that Steve mentioned...
I guess that there are probably a lot of them in California.

The scabbard and bayonet have been together for at least 35 years since I acquired it from out of a huge box that was full of 1905 bayonets and canvass scabbards, Krag bayonets and scabbards and 1905 Hospital Corps bolo's that an old timer in Kansas City, Missouri named Barney Joe Davies had in his old house. Barney had for years from the 1940's on purchased U.S. Govt. surplus bladed weapons, 1903 Springfield's, U.S. Krag Jorgensen's and cases of Trapdoor Springfield's in auctions somewhere on a dock in New York City. He had a closet full of three dozen or more 1903 Springfield rifles. Some that he told me were experimental examples. Another closet was full of Krag rifles. In another room of his old house he had gun racks of U.S. trapdoor Springfield rifles. He even had one example of an experimental 1917 Enfield. I wish that I'd have bought it for the $140.00 that he was asking at the time, but that was back in 1975 and nobody knew much of 1917's then or seemed to care about any experimental rifles. I remember a great bit of detail about that one. I'm thinking that somebody shortly afterwards had bought it for another gentleman who had heard about it. For some reason, I'm thinking that man was Bill Brophy, but I can't know for sure now. I know that his name came up when that rifle was mentioned. That was before the 1903 Springfield book came out anyway.

The rifle shown with the bayonet and cotton scabbard is an all correct 03 with a 11-17 barrel date. I've more photo's of it if anyone wants to see them.
The rifle shown with the canvass rifle case is a 1920 National Match 03 with a barrel date of 11-19. I just grabbed it outa the cabinet to show how well the 1903 fits in the rifle case. I think that this case might be too short for a Garand to fit into. Wish I had an M1 to try out in it.

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c72/Whitedog333/IMG_0353_zpsfydsmrmr.jpg (http://s25.photobucket.com/user/Whitedog333/media/IMG_0353_zpsfydsmrmr.jpg.html)

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c72/Whitedog333/IMG_0352_zpsnhycxmzx.jpg (http://s25.photobucket.com/user/Whitedog333/media/IMG_0352_zpsnhycxmzx.jpg.html)

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c72/Whitedog333/IMG_0356_zpssdnjaohh.jpg (http://s25.photobucket.com/user/Whitedog333/media/IMG_0356_zpssdnjaohh.jpg.html)

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c72/Whitedog333/IMG_0355_zpsbsyeepfu.jpg (http://s25.photobucket.com/user/Whitedog333/media/IMG_0355_zpsbsyeepfu.jpg.html)

QUOTE=cplnorton;411367]
By the way that scabbard is a Marine depot made cover. They were made in the 1940-41 timeframe, around there. There are hard to find so that is a nice piece in of itself![/QUOTE]

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c72/Whitedog333/IMG_0321_zps0ub8cawt.jpg (http://s25.photobucket.com/user/Whitedog333/media/IMG_0321_zps0ub8cawt.jpg.html)
http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c72/Whitedog333/IMG_0318_zpsbuafhs8u.jpg (http://s25.photobucket.com/user/Whitedog333/media/IMG_0318_zpsbuafhs8u.jpg.html)

[Fred]

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c72/Whitedog333/IMG_0315_zpsqoiwbcwm.jpg (http://s25.photobucket.com/user/Whitedog333/media/IMG_0315_zpsqoiwbcwm.jpg.html)

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c72/Whitedog333/IMG_0311_zpsqgfebnq4.jpg (http://s25.photobucket.com/user/Whitedog333/media/IMG_0311_zpsqgfebnq4.jpg.html)

[bruce]

Beautiful rifle and accessories. Wonderful post. Thank you. Sincerely. bruce.

[cplnorton]

Yeah that is neat. I think the depot scabbard covers were made at Philadelphia. I could be wrong on that, but Philly was the only real depot running pre WWII for the Marines.

I've never seen a case like that before. It sure is neat. I was trying to think what the MCSC stands for. About the only thing I came up with is Marince Corps Service Center. That is about the only thing that makes sense in my mind.

An interesting note I've seen on the blades of the bayonets I've found in those Marine Corps scabbards. They seem to have a blued type finish on them. It's not park, and it reminds me of the same type of finish you find on the Marine corps rebuild bolts on the 1903's. But everyone I've ever found in those scabbards that I don't think have been swapped since they left the Marines has that finish. And this one appears to be the same type of finish as well. If you look at the area around the US on the blade it looks blued too in the sunlight.

[Fred]

Steve, I had allways thought that it might've meant Marine Corps Supply Company. Beats me. I and another Lt. from the 1/73 Armor out at Ft. Irwin were sent into Barstow to the Marine base there to do something at the supply counter. I can't remember now what in the world that was. Anyway, while at the desk, I noticed that there was this rifle case hanging from a hook on the back wall behind the counter with a price tag of $5.00 on it. I asked the supply sergeant about it and he told me that it was for sale as were all the other stuff that they occasionally find or come across in their warehouse that is obsolete. The items are sold to Soldiers and Marines. Don't know what they do with the money. Anyway, while at the counter, this other Lt. who had come with me in our jeep, who was also an ex cop, sticks his head in the door and says that he'll see me back at Irwin because he has something to take care of. When I came out, he was gone. Back to the base I went, 70 something miles away. When I got back to the motor pool, I saw that he was painting some numbers on another jeep. He told me that he'd just stolen it from the Marine Corps base there where it had been parked outside of the Supply Company and had driven it back over the desert over Coyote Lake (dry lake bed) and into the back way to the motor pool. He'd painted over all of the Marine stenciling and added new ID and then created paperwork on the jeep. He was a character. I didn't ever say anything of course because one just didn't do that to a fellow officer. Cops... lol.

[Fred]

Beautiful rifle and accessories. Wonderful post. Thank you. Sincerely. bruce.

I'm glad you liked the photo's Bruce! It's amazing what an iPhone camera can produce.

[Fred]

An interesting note I've seen on the blades of the bayonets I've found in those Marine Corps scabbards. They seem to have a blued type finish on them. It's not park, and it reminds me of the same type of finish you find on the Marine corps rebuild bolts on the 1903's. But everyone I've ever found in those scabbards that I don't think have been swapped since they left the Marines has that finish. And this one appears to be the same type of finish as well. If you look at the area around the US on the blade it looks blued too in the sunlight.

Man, I'm learning a Lot here!

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c72/Whitedog333/IMG_0324_zpsx1m4ov0a.jpg (http://s25.photobucket.com/user/Whitedog333/media/IMG_0324_zpsx1m4ov0a.jpg.html)

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c72/Whitedog333/IMG_0323_zps1gec2afy.jpg (http://s25.photobucket.com/user/Whitedog333/media/IMG_0323_zps1gec2afy.jpg.html)

[Fred]

I've just now noticed that there is a well worn, large number 11 stamped into the left grip. I wonder if the bayonet could've been used by The 11th Marines...?
World War II

3rd Battalion 11th Marines was activated 1 May 1943 at Victoria, Australia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victoria,_Australia) as the 5th Battalion, 11th Marines (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/11th_Marine_Regiment_(United_States)), 1st Marine Division (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1st_Marine_Division_(United_States)), Fleet Marine Force (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fleet_Marine_Force). The Battalion was redesignated 3rd Battalion, 11th Marines on 7 May 1944. During World War II, 3/11 participated in the Eastern New Guinea, Battle of New Britain (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Cartwheel), Battle of Peleliu (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Peleliu), Battle of Guadalcanal (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Guadalcanal) and the Battle of Okinawa (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Okinawa). Following World War II, Third Battalion participated in the occupation of North China from September 1945 to January 1947. In December 1946, the battalion was attached to the 7th Marines (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/7th_Marine_Regiment_(United_States)). The battalion was relocated to Marine Corps Base Camp Pendleton (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marine_Corps_Base_Camp_Pendleton), California in January 1947 and was assigned to the 3rd Marine Brigade (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/3rd_Marine_Brigade). The battalion was deactivated on 30 September 1947.


World War II

With the approach of World War II and the consequent expansion of the Marine Corps, an 11th Marines (Artillery) was activated at Guantanamo Bay (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guantanamo_Bay_Naval_Base), Cuba (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cuba), on 1 March 1941. Activation of the regiment's organic battalions already had been underway since 1 September 1940 when the 1st Battalion was created. After its return to the United States from Cuba, the regiment (less the 1st Battalion) shipped overseas with the 1st Marine Division (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1st_Marine_Division_(United_States)) to New Zealand in June–July 1942. The 1st Battalion went to Samoa (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samoa) with the 7th Marine Regiment (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/7th_Marine_Regiment_(United_States)) in March 1942.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/99/GuadMarineArtillery2.jpg/250px-GuadMarineArtillery2.jpg (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:GuadMarineArtillery2.jpg)
11th Marines cannoneers man a M1918 155 mm howitzer during the Guadalcanal Campaign (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guadalcanal_Campaign).


The 11th Marines participated in the Battle of Guadalcanal (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Guadalcanal) in August with the 1st Marine Division and played an especially significant part in the Battle of the Tenaru (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_the_Tenaru) and the Battle of Bloody Ridge (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Bloody_Ridge). The 1st Battalion rejoined the regiment in September on Guadalcanal. On 15 December 1942, the 11th Marines left Guadalcanal for Australia, rested and reorganized, and then reentered combat on New Britain (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Britain) at Cape Gloucester (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Cartwheel) on 26 December 1943. Here the regiment furnished support to the infantry in their capture of the Japanese aerodrome. Following the New Britain campaign came a period of preparation for the Peleliu landing where the regiment was actively engaged.
For the first two weeks after the initial landing on 15 September 1944, the regiment took part in the Battle of Peleliu (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Peleliu). All artillery support was handled both novelly and conventionally, providing massed preparatory, harassing, and interdicting fire. Later, the artillery was used to fire directly into the mouths of enemy caves. In March 1945, the 11th Marines participated in the Battle of Okinawa (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Okinawa), its final combat operation of World War II. There the regiment played an important defensive role with effective counter-battery fire, and steadily suppressed enemy attempts to counter-attack objectives already won by U.S. forces. With the war won, in the fall of 1945 the 11th Marines moved to Tianjin (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tianjin) in North China where it was soon involved in trying to keep peace in the midst of the increasing conflict between rival Chinese factions. Early in 1947, the regiment returned to the United States to be reduced virtually to a battalion-sized unit.

[Fred]

All just speculation on my part. I don't know anything about any of this stuff. For all that I know, the bayonet could just as easily be a Bubba blue job. Who knows...
Its interesting though.

[Fred]

The stenceling on the rifle case stands for the Marine Corps Supply Center in Barstow, CA. They apparently have had rifle teams.

[cplnorton]

Are there any names stamped anywhere on the scabbard? Most of the times when you find those scabbards they have a name stamped on them but not all the time. The Marines were notoriously for putting their name on every piece of gear they used. Sometimes they are really light and hard to see. I'm not seeing any in the pics, but you might give it a one over in the light just to see if anything was there. It's nice though when you find a name though, you can research the names and find out where the Marines were through ancestry.

One of my scabbards the guys name came back to a Marine who was on Guadalcanal, Tarawa, and Saipan. He was 8th Marine regiment, 2nd Marine Division. He was barely 16 years old when he enlisted in the Marines, he had lied about his age apparently. But he was still 16 when he landed on the Canal. He just turned 17 when he made the assault on Tarawa, and was still 17 when he was shot multiple times on Saipan while assaulting a pillbox. He was medivaced to the states and lived until the 1990's.

It's pretty neat when you can put the history of a Marine with the piece. :)

[cplnorton]

Don't you wish that bayonet could talk Fred? I think that so much when I hold this stuff in my hands. That is half the reason I love collecting is the history behind it.

[Rick the Librarian]

Don't you wish that bayonet could talk Fred? I think that so much when I hold this stuff in my hands. That is half the reason I love collecting is the history behind it.

+1!!!

[RCS]

These two are some of my favorite USMC items, difficult to find too. I have had these for many years3053130532

[rayg]

Fred, great quality photos as usual, Ray

[Fred]

Hey thanks Ray! I'm glad I've a better iPhone camera now.

[Richard Turner/Turner Saddlery]

Fred:

MCSC ("Marine Corps Supply Center") is the original base name as established in 1942, when the supply depot at San Francisco was moved to Barstow. It was changed to MCLB "Marine Corps Logistics Base" Barstow in 1978. As to the canvas bag, it is a USMC Rifle Teams rifle bag. The Marine Corps issued these from the 1940s to the early 1970s. They were made by Boyt under contract for the USMC and some of the bags during Vietnam were OD Green, as they were also used as bags for sniper rifles.

Here is a link to a blog (they don't know what they have), that shows a photo of an OD USMC Rifle Bag.
http://g503.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=213534

Chandler has a good photo in "Death From Afar" Vol 1, Pg 142, of the khaki USMC bag. LtCol Chandler had Boyt make some reproductions of the khaki bag and sold them on his website, one of which I have for my Chandler Sniper, but I do not currently see them listed at this time on his deathfromafar (http://www.deathfromafar.com/) site. Some of the bags had the Eagle Globe and Anchor and USMC embossed on the leather tip of the bag.

Richard

[Richard Turner/Turner Saddlery]

Fred:

If I were you, I would leave it as is. Washing may cause it to fade or deteriorate since the stuffing (quilting) is most likely cotton batting and will lump up when wet. Could hurt the value. It is a piece of USMC history and should be worth at least several hundred dollars today, maybe more.

Richard

[Fred]

Richard, thanks for the interesting information. I just looked and found the BOYT tag with Des Moines Iowa on it. The other side of the tag has 48" on it. I really ought to wash it carefully by hand to get the rifle grease off of the inside pads. It's very well made. Ain't it kinda ironic that I got a variety of WWII USMC stuff and I don't even collect it!
I guess it'll be perfect to carry my Minty 1920 National Match 1903 rifle (pictured with the padded case) around in on which I believe came one of the nice conditioned USMC 1907 type slings. Maybe another sling was on it, but I can't remember now... I'll look at the old original photo's of the rifle from when I bought it.

[Fred]

Shazam! It was the only one hanging up behind the Marine Supply Sergeants counter, so maybe it was the only one found somewhere and so was put out for surplus sale.
Heck, not bad for a Five Dollar bill!

Fred

[Richard Turner/Turner Saddlery]

Fred:

Here is a photo from Chandler's "Death From Afar" Marine Corps Sniping, Vol 1, Page 142.
30536

[Fred]

Thanks Richard! I've had it thrown over a chair or laying on the floor for 34 years. When I first saw it, I was thinking that it'd be perfect for my 1903 Springfield. That rifle, S.A. #362000 with a 1909 barrel, fit perfectly in it. I don't believe that an M1 Garand will fit in the 48" case.

[Richard Turner/Turner Saddlery]

Fred:

A Garand will fit with no problems. Although it is a scoped rifle case, we used them on occasion for the Match M14s and they were most commonly used for the M40A1s scoped.

[Fred]

I'll take it to a military collectors show in K. C. and trade it and the bayonet and slings for something interesting.