Last Ditch: problem?

[TSimonetti]

Hi all.

I picked up this Last Ditch at a gun show on a whim. It appeared to be in great shape, so I started thinking that I may actually shoot it. Well lighting may have been a bit dark in the hall because when I got it home and looked at it closely, It looks like the rear peep sight block is canted slightly to the right. Almost as if the barrel had not been screwed in enough.

If you look closely at the right side of the block, it is making contact with the hand guard and has actually caused a stress crack there. The left side of the handguard is more open(and the left side of the block is slightly higher). Hard to see the slant in the picture. Is this a case of the barrel not being scewed in enough? or was the block installed crooked?

http://i849.photobucket.com/albums/ab55/Tonynk/Jap%20Last%20Ditch/Jap2.jpg (http://s849.photobucket.com/user/Tonynk/media/Jap%20Last%20Ditch/Jap2.jpg.html)

Here are the index lines. It does look like it should have been tightened a bit more, but not sure if that tiny bit would have corrected the slant.

http://i849.photobucket.com/albums/ab55/Tonynk/Jap%20Last%20Ditch/Jap1.jpg (http://s849.photobucket.com/user/Tonynk/media/Jap%20Last%20Ditch/Jap1.jpg.html)

It's really a great looking gun. All matching numbers and intact mum. It looks like it was made yesterday. The bore is mirror bright. Is this something that needs looked at by a gunsmith to tighten the barrel? Or is it common to see crooked sights and other parts that just do not seem straight?

http://i849.photobucket.com/albums/ab55/Tonynk/Jap%20Last%20Ditch/Jap3.jpg (http://s849.photobucket.com/user/Tonynk/media/Jap%20Last%20Ditch/Jap3.jpg.html)

Thanks for looking and I appreciate any advice in advance.
Tony

[kcw]

That IS a nice looking gun. Yes, it appears that they didn't line up the witness marks exactly, but if it's properly head spaced it's as safe to shoot as any other Last Ditch and having the barrel adjusted isn't going to make it any safer. I suspect that any decent gunsmith could align the marks, but that might create a tight headspace issue that will have to be dealt with. Also the barrel finish could get messed up. I'd view that piece was a prime historic example and leave it "as is". I can't say that I've noticed the condition on the several LD's that I owned. but NONE ever looked that "crispy" either. I suspect that it was taken directly out of the factory crate by U.S. personnel. I think that if I were to shoot I'd 1st relieve/shave a bit of wood off the end of the hand guard so as not to further crack it upon recoil.

[kcw]

BTW, I'm sure that we'd all appreciate some pics of the entire piece!!! We had a family friend who's LST was one of the 1st ships to enter Tokyo Harbor. They went ashore as security and found themselves at the local arsenal were they found workers opening crates of new rifles and holding the mum up to a grinder. The altered rifles were then simply being thrown off the loading dock. Recognizing a prime business opportunity, they procured a 2.5 ton truck off the LST and gathered up unopened crates of new rifles from the arsenal , hauled them back to the harbor and set about going from ship to ship on a small boat, selling them for $40 a rifle! The ships lowered their gangways down, when $40 came down a rifle was sent up. They actually got away with it for about a week before MacArthur put an end to it. He said that they probably sold several thousand, there were empty rifle crates bobbing about all over the harbor. Maybe your rifle was one of them. Have you determined which arsenal made your rifle?

[TSimonetti]

I was told it is Kokura Arsenal. I will post more pics, including the serial number, and the photobucket link. There is very old grease in all the nooks and crannies, and the all metal is dry and near mint. Wood is excellent and so is the buttplate. I don't see any obvious stamps in the wood.

Thanks for your help! Maybe I need to get another one now as this one is too nice to shoot?

Tony

[Deano41]

The series number is the important fact to know. The series number, serial number and arsenal are all on the left side of the receiver. The serial numbers 1 to 100,000 were repeated in each series.

As discussed before, chambers on Japanese rifles are on the "generous" side. The witness marks don't look that bad to me. They were turning out rifles, not Swiss watches. (Proof marks would be on the bottom of the stock, behind the trigger guard. Some of the proof marks look more like a square dent.

Here is a website that will show the markings.
http://www.gunboards.com/sites/banzai/DataSheets/M99/M99Data.htm#Model_99

[TSimonetti]

Here is the serial number side. Can someone tell me the series? I am not very proficient. To me it could be a 22 or a double struck 24, or a 25...Any help deciphering is greatly appreciated. It looks mostly like a 25 looking at it again...

http://i849.photobucket.com/albums/ab55/Tonynk/Jap%20Last%20Ditch/Jap14.jpg (http://s849.photobucket.com/user/Tonynk/media/Jap%20Last%20Ditch/Jap14.jpg.html)

And here is the photo bucket link below. If anyone would like to see other specific pictures, please let me know.

http://s849.photobucket.com/user/Tonynk/library/Jap%20Last%20Ditch?sort=3&page=1

I don't see any stampings on the stock behind the trigger guard but have included a picture in the link above.

Thanks again!
Tony

[TSimonetti]

A question about headspace. Since it appears to have the original matching bolt, does that normally mean that it is properly headspaced as well?

[psteinmayer]

Is the butt plate wood or metal? I thin this is a fine example of a near last ditch... but not actually "Last Ditch". A true last ditch wouldn't have a mum, just a bare receiver top. They are usually pretty rough! As for the indexing, it would have to be way off before it would pose a headspace or functionality problem. Yours is really just a hair off, and could be a result of mis-cut threads... Just a hair off!

As Deano41 said, T99s have a very generous chamber. If you're concerned about head spacing, chamber a fired case and see if your bolt handle is excessively loose. I suspect it's fine... especially if the bolt numbers match the last three of the serial number. Arisaka rifles have matching numbers on everything... but many don't match because bolts and other parts were removed when the were brought back and tossed together. When they were reassembled apon arrival in the states, they didn't check numbers, and just installed what ever bolt they happened to grab. Petty common!

[Deano41]

Can't open the photobucket account. In the picture you posted, the series number is to the left of the serial number, and is not clear enough to guess at.

With a matching bolt, I would expect the headspace to be OK. There are arguments on the headspace issue all the time. As I said, the chambers are "generous".

Looks like a nice rifle. With a series number, I can tell you an approximate production date.

[TSimonetti]

Can't open the photobucket account. In the picture you posted, the series number is to the left of the serial number, and is not clear enough to guess at.

With a matching bolt, I would expect the headspace to be OK. There are arguments on the headspace issue all the time. As I said, the chambers are "generous".

Looks like a nice rifle. With a series number, I can tell you an approximate production date.

Dean, Thanks for letting me know...The album was on "private". I just switched it to "public" so the link should work now.

http://s849.photobucket.com/user/Tonynk/library/Jap%20Last%20Ditch?sort=3&page=1

And here is the link again but in slide show form:

http://s849.photobucket.com/user/Tonynk/slideshow/Jap%20Last%20Ditch

Here are two other photos of the series stamp. Maybe they are clearer?

http://i849.photobucket.com/albums/ab55/Tonynk/Jap%20Last%20Ditch/Jap21.jpg (http://s849.photobucket.com/user/Tonynk/media/Jap%20Last%20Ditch/Jap21.jpg.html)

http://i849.photobucket.com/albums/ab55/Tonynk/Jap%20Last%20Ditch/Jap22.jpg (http://s849.photobucket.com/user/Tonynk/media/Jap%20Last%20Ditch/Jap22.jpg.html)

Looks like there may be a very light double stamp mark, so maybe that is making it less clear?

Thanks
Tony

[TSimonetti]

Is the butt plate wood or metal? I thin this is a fine example of a near last ditch... but not actually "Last Ditch". A true last ditch wouldn't have a mum, just a bare receiver top.

Buttplate is wooden with 3 nails. 20 photos in the link above. Links should work now. Thanks. Didn't know there was a "near last ditch"....I'm learning from scratch today. Always thought wooden buttplate and rear peep and no full handguard meant "last ditch". Hope now someone can tell me an approximate production date.

Many thanks to all. Can anyone recommend a good beginning collector book on the Type 99?

[Deano41]

Series 25, made from approximately Jan. 1945 to August 1945. By your serial number 73299 (that's when serial numbers help) your rifle was toward the end of the run (and the war). In reading "The Japanese Type 99 Arisaka Rifle", there were no inspection marks on the butt stock of the series 25. Your rifle should have a separate forestock, it is NOT "duffle cut". The last 74,000 rifles produced by Kokura were referred to as "Substitute Type 99. They were cutting the dust cover grooves, even though the dust covers had been deleted long ago.

With the "mum", and original finish, including the "chatter marks" on the stock, all matching numbers, I'd say you have a real find there. They ain't making these any more!

[Deano41]

TS, check your "PMs"

[dave]

Is every one assuming the had guard is square at the back? That could account for the gap.

[S.B.]

Is the butt plate wood or metal? I thin this is a fine example of a near last ditch... but not actually "Last Ditch". A true last ditch wouldn't have a mum, just a bare receiver top. They are usually pretty rough! As for the indexing, it would have to be way off before it would pose a headspace or functionality problem. Yours is really just a hair off, and could be a result of mis-cut threads... Just a hair off!

As Deano41 said, T99s have a very generous chamber. If you're concerned about head spacing, chamber a fired case and see if your bolt handle is excessively loose. I suspect it's fine... especially if the bolt numbers match the last three of the serial number. Arisaka rifles have matching numbers on everything... but many don't match because bolts and other parts were removed when the were brought back and tossed together. When they were reassembled apon arrival in the states, they didn't check numbers, and just installed what ever bolt they happened to grab. Petty common!

I've been told that "last ditch" Arisaka's had a hole drilled through the butt stock to facilitate the sling, any truth to this?
Steve

[Deano41]

Yes, at the end of the war, they were cutting corners any way they could. The sling attachment on the buttstock was omitted, and a hole drilled for a rope sling. They are not that common, and as such can command a higher price on today's market.

[JimF]

I'm thinking it is a series 25, Kokura arsenal.