1911 Navy at RIAC auction Lot 3489

[gbethu]

There is a USN 1911 in the upcoming Rock Island Auction. Lot 3489

Desirable and Rare Pre-World War I Colt Model 1911 U.S. Navy Contract Semi-Automatic Pistol with Colt Factory Letter.

I'm having trouble with the Colt letter saying it's a September 1914 issued pistol with a 972xx serial number. The lack of a 1913 patent date and a circled rampant colt mark on the slide wouldn't be correct for this serial number in my opinion. . Is there anyway this could be correct?
I thought the oldest Navy marked pistols that had a circled Rampant colt were in the 40xxx serial range. I also thought the 1913 patent date was added in early 1914. Any thoughts as the estimate is very high. Must be something I don't understand.


http://www.rockislandauction.com/vie...id/64/lid/3489

[Rich Notso]

Gorden, It appears that the page you referenced is no longer available.

[Duane Hansen]

Lot #3489 comes up as a Winchester Model 70.

[gbethu]

Lot #3489 comes up as a Winchester Model 70.

Duane, it's the upcoming April 24-26 Rock Island Auction. Lot number is 3489. Just web search Rock Island Auction Company auction in April for a Navy 1911. There are only two and this one is estimated at 12K to 18K....I know, don't choke....especially for for a 70% condition 1914 issue.

http://www.rockislandauction.com/viewitem/aid/64/lid/3489

You would be the best person to help me with my thinking but it sure looks like an early slide on a later frame. I know there are many more educated than me (like you), so thought I would ask. I saw it at the Tulsa show and , when asked, the behind the counter "expert" just shrugged and walked away. I thought the estimate was way high even if it was a correct configuration example.

I've spent some large dollars with RIAC and they tend to attract the highest quality items. Hard for me to question them but ......???? Am I just misinformed ?

thanks gordon

[Johnny P]

Not too hard to figure out. A 1912 slide on a 1914 receiver.

[gbethu]

JP, as you say, not too hard to figure out. Why would they estimate this parts gun as a 12-18K Navy 1911.? They read the same books as most of us.....who would continue to believe their opinion or veracity ? Sad commentary on the gun collecting community.

[Johnny P]

As I said, not to hard to figure out what, but only RIA would know why and I couldn't address that.

[Rob Greer]

Sad commentary on the gun collecting community.

I would agree with this if it actually sells in the estimated range... I feel it is an auction house trying to market the pieces in their auction. Sometimes they are very low on estimates... This time, maybe not so much... Time will tell what they get for it.

[joem]

Let me say that RIA are liberal with their descriptions of the items they list for bid. There may be other words for liberal but I didn't say or print them.

[GA-Dave]

Some of their other items are very nice.

[Rob Greer]

This USN hammered at $14k. Someone really wanted it.

[westgard]

I would agree, pretty big money for that particular gun.

[gbethu]

Someone paid $16,100 for this 1914 frame with a 1912 slide in 70% finish at the recent big RIAC auction. WOW !!!!!

Just think how much they could have saved by purchasing a Clawson or Meadows reference guide.

Makes me feel good about the value of the guns I own......Parts gun for $16,100 !!!!!!

[Rob Greer]

Just think how much they could have saved by purchasing a Clawson or Meadows reference guide.

Aww... come on. Those books are too expensive! [Sarcasm off...]

Even if the buyer paid $1k for Clawson's big book, he would be several thousand dollars ahead of the game now. (Or, at least he would have known what he bought...)

[joem]

That supports my comment about RIA.

[Johnny P]

Easy enough to see how someone (or at least two people) with little knowledge about the evolution of the Model 1911 could miss the changes that occurred over a two year period. The slide and the receiver were good matches in finish. People have and still pay big prices for total fakes. The person buying the gun has some responsibility in finding out about what they are bidding on rather than put all their trust in an auction company's description.

[Scott Wilson]

Johnny,
I would change one word in your post. The person buying the gun has MOST of the responsibility in determining the originality and correctness of any given piece. There has been a lot of good information available for years (tons of it from you and others) for which I am grateful. Buyer beware!

[gbethu]

Johnny,
I would change one word in your post. The person buying the gun has MOST of the responsibility in determining the originality and correctness of any given piece. There has been a lot of good information available for years (tons of it from you and others) for which I am grateful. Buyer beware!

I AGREE THE BUYER HAS THE ULTIMATE RESPONSIBILITY. I do know that my dealings with Amoskeag are completely different. I have had them call me before an auction and after a I placed an absentee bid to correct some misinformation in their description.

I personally asked the RIA manager at the Tulsa about the slide/frame mismatch and he just shrugged and walked away. Huge difference in my trust between these two auction houses.

All this is just FYI. Doubt anyone is going to change attitudes about representation to potential customers.

[Johnny P]

If everyone was an expert on collectible firearms it would certainly be their responsibility to determine whether what they bought was authentic or not, but as been evidenced on numerous forums everyone is not an expert. They must rely on someone else to tell them whether something is correct or not. Knowing that, people still persist in buying fakes.

[mpd1978]

Maybe the buyer has a 1912 Navy frame with a 1914 Navy slide.