1880 Experimental Trapdoor

[fuelfed392]

Just listed my 1880 Experimental Trapdoor on GunBroker. Please let me know what you all think? I hope I am being fair! Thanks!

[Tom Trevor]

Al Frasca at trapdoorcollector.com has one in nice condition for 2650.00. That should help you with comparison pricing.

[Dick Hosmer]

Both rifles have problems.

Al's is much more correct as to configuration, but has condition issues - I think it is priced a bit low, but we shall see - he really knows the market, if anyone does.

The Gunbroker arm - if I have the correct one (BIN for $3995?) - has some issues that I do not understand. The breechblock is a narrow (prior to 96300) one, and of the earliest configuration with low scallop cut at right side. SA would NEVER have fitted such a block into a wide receiver. THe hammer is of correct post 1880 form (with lip) but the top has been ground and polished to make it flush with the top of the block which is incorrect. It has been fitted with a Buffington sight, but, the army did not keep them in service long enough for that to happen. The bronze firing pin is also a replacement. The BIN price is probably fair under the circumstances, but it may be a tough sell as offered. Were it mine I probably would go to the trouble of replacing the hammer, block, and rear sight - then boosting the price to what the rifle deserves, perhaps $5000.

Just my $.02 - your mileage may vary.

[Dick Hosmer]

Whoops - wrong rifle, my bad!

That one is much nicer (though I might argue as to it being the best one left - Collectors Firearms in Houston has one that is nearly brand new, with price to match) than either discussed above - and is certainly, IMHO, worth the price asked. Yours looks to be in about the same condition as mine - 156967.

Would it be possible to provided the exact serial number? I'd like to see if I have it logged for inclusion in the table of the 1880 chapter in my upcoming book.

[1mark]

Can you post the link or the auction number?

[Tom Trevor]

Also search Rock Island auction companies next auction, catalog is now on line, for trapdoor Springfield and look at that one. low estimate price and condition.

[5MadFarmers]

Julia sold 157186 for $3,162 in the Spring of 2013.

http://jamesdjulia.com/item/lot-1487-very-rare-springfield-model-1880-rod-bayonet-rifle-47738/

[Dick Hosmer]

That's a VERY nice one, at least as good as the one at Collectors - and definitely better than mine. Interesting that Julia felt it necessary to spin the s/n as a possible anagram of the one on Al's list - totally superfluous BS, and probably a wrong assumption to boot. It's in the right range, what more need be said? Sad that the market has fallen so much - many of the rare items in the Branum collection, for example, went far too low last year at Cowan's, IMHO.

Joe, do I have the numbers on all three of yours?

[5MadFarmers]

That's a VERY nice one, at least as good as the one at Collectors - and definitely better than mine. Interesting that Julia felt it necessary to spin the s/n as a possible anagram of the one on Al's list - totally superfluous BS, and probably a wrong assumption to boot it's in the right range, what more need be said?

When faced with a list of what are unusual guns, and the one that you're looking at isn't on it, suspecting a transposition isn't too strange I guess. 157186 vs 157816. Two numbers transposed. It caught my eye and I watched it go. I was mildly interested but not $3K+ interested as I paid less for 157816. So the number transposition would have been amusing to have but not amusing enough to pay that market.


Sad that the market has fallen so much - many of the rare items in the Branum collection, for example, went far too low last year at Cowan's, IMHO.

Ebb and flow of the market and finance. Not a bad thing if you're buying but obvious not good if your selling. I'm not really doing either right now so no big deal. I did dump some more modern stuff and some ammo and that was selling like hotcakes.


Joe, do I have the numbers on all three of yours?

Thought you had them. 156793, 156831, and 157816. That last not being a typo. :)

What a gun is worth is what it'll get on the open market. If it doesn't get it, it wasn't worth that. If it does, it was. The market changes over time so only a sale will determine what anything is worth in that market at that time.

FWIW I bought the three in a four month span five years ago. Averaged to $2,100 per rifle. I wanted one so the gun gods smiled once again and three found me. Hard to turn strays away. 157816 came with the batch which included the BoOaF Krag. That was a nice batch.

[John Sukey]

Is that one of the ones in 30-40? They were numbered alphabeticly instead of numericly

[Dick Hosmer]

Is what one of the .30 Springfields?

Joe was speaking of his 26" barreled Board Of Ordnance & Fortifications Krag - 1 of 100.

[Dick Hosmer]

Yes, I did have all your numbers - still hoping for this "new" one.

[fuelfed392]

I have added three photos to the description of the 1880 experimental trapdoor as well as some further description. Please let me know what you all think. Mr. Hosmer, I would be happy to provide you with any information about this gun, especially if it helps you with a book. Please let me know what I can do and how to get you the info privately. Thanks!

[Dick Hosmer]

Just send me a PM with the serial number, please. Thank you.

[Dick Hosmer]

Thanks - that is a new number to me, falling between previously recorded specimens 157632 and 157732. Nothing strikes me as special, other than the fact that it is the rare model of course - the two (P)s most likely means it was returned to SA for addition of the slide-lock. Did you know that a batch of them were offered for sale in the "American Rifleman" in 1951? Rifle, blue web belt, and a 20-rd. box of original FA ammo for . . . . . . . . . . drum roll . . . . . . . . . . $24.95 plus freight? Lest you think that was an accident - they were CORRECTLY identified (a significant statement for that period of deep ignorance, when a TD was a TD and that was it).

[John Sukey]

Prices;
Had a turn of the century Bannerman catalog
Trapdoor for $1.95, but for 50 cents more they would "sporterize" it (chop the stock and barrel)

During Prohibition, the caretaker on the island would knock the bronze hubs off the gatling gun carriages and sell them for booze money

[fuelfed392]

I have failed to sell my 1880 Experimental Trapdoor on Gunbroker. Starting bid was $4500.00. If anybody is interested please pm me with your offer. You may be surprised! By the way, paid $5500.00 for this rifle ten years ago in Anchorage Alaska.

[Dick Hosmer]

Unless you are (and I sincerely hope not) in dire straits, you need to give it more time, perhaps a lot more.

Such items do not sell at the drop of a hat.

Only a limited number of people have money for toys right now - that number is reduced by those who don't like guns, then by those who do but are happy with a plain-Jane standard rifle, and further reduced by the fact that a lot of the people who really appreciate what you have, such as myself, already own one. It's a small circle.

I thank my lucky stars that I've been at this a long time and hopefully will not have to face a $1000+ loss.

[fuelfed392]

Thanks Mr. Hosmer. I am not in dire straits. I have moved on to other projects that are not gun related and would like to raise funds without using household funds. I would not really like to take a $1000.00 loss. As my late Mother used to say, "patience is a virtue". Guess I could use a little of both lately!

[Dan Shapiro]

Patience is indeed a virtue. Take your time!

[fuelfed392]

Good advice, well taken!