View Full Version : Iver Johnson... Yay or nay?
Johan412th
05-28-2015, 05:55
Hello, gents. I'm new to this side of the forum, And was hoping someone could give me the low-down on the iver Johnson m1's, what to watch for and a general history if possible. Thanks!
I'm not the expert on commercial M1 carbines but as far as I know the IJ carbines in good condition are generally serviceable and safe. The more knowledgeable will probably jump in here and correct me if I am wrong. You may find the following website helpful:
http://www.m1carbinesinc.com/carbine_ij.html
Hi
I personally have never fired one, I have just shot military types, but folks I have talked to are not super impressed with the fit, finish or overall operation of the Iver Johnson
My humble opinion, by a true military, mil-spec, M1 Carbine, I think in the long run you will be much happier
My 2 cents worth
Johan412th
05-28-2015, 10:28
Hey, this is the info I'm after. I'd prefer a surplus one, but I'm on a budget and they are the only ones available locally.
In the 70s I bought a Plainfield Machine Company M1 carbine from the old Western Auto. I did not know much about carbines but it filled the bill for that time. It worked and shot just fine. The only issue I ever had with it was the barrel band spring broke which was easily replaced.
Iver Johnson took over Plainfield Machine Company.
A few years back a friend bought cheap, a well used Iver Johnson M1 carbine for a truck gun. We parkerized it in the backyard, put new springs in it, and it works and shoots just fine.
I would think you could find a Plainfield or Iver Johnson relatively cheap and fill the bill until you can find a USGI gun. Replace the old springs with USGI springs, and use USGI 15 rd magazines or the new Korean made 15 rounders, then let us know how it works.
Johan412th
05-28-2015, 02:06
Thanks Bonnie. Real good info to have. It's going to have to fit the bill until a good Usgi one shows up.
I believe the later Universal M1 Carbines where they got creative with the design and parts used to assemble the carbine created the impression that anything other than GI was junk. Most of the early commercial carbines manufactured with GI surplus parts and commercial receivers functioned well as do most of the later carbines using parts similar to US GI parts.
musketjon
05-28-2015, 05:20
Boat anchor or paper weight.
Jon
It all depends on when it was made. Early IJ carbines are not bad at all...BUT the later ones can be considered to be junk and some may be dangerous as the quality at the end of production was terrible right along with the last of the Universal carbines.
Johan412th
05-28-2015, 10:52
It all depends on when it was made. Early IJ carbines are not bad at all...BUT the later ones can be considered to be junk and some may be dangerous as the quality at the end of production was terrible right along with the last of the Universal carbines.
How can you tell the age or year?
How can you tell the age or year?
The dates of manufacture are available on the site ChipS posted.
http://www.m1carbinesinc.com/carbine_ij03.html
Iver Johnson took over Plainfield Machine Company and quality went down hill. A Plainfield(had mine for 40 years. No issues a bath didn't fix. Never required any parts) is an exact copy. IJ's are lower end.
"...relatively cheap..." If you think $350 plus is cheap. Mind you, there's a Plainfield on Gunbroker running $225.
Early Universals are OK, but after their idiotic redesign(look for the poorly made stamped op handle, that breaks, a toggle for the bolt hold open and two return springs) they're junk.
I'm with GWP, a Hoosier neighbor and Tuna on this one. I had an early Universal chrome or nickel plated..even the 30 rd. mag was plated and beautiful wood. I acquired this in a trade in the early seventies but traded it off years ago. A buddy of mine had an Iver Johnson back then and we ran a ton of ammo through em..surplus was so cheap back then it wasn't an issue. Iver Johnson made some quality firearms back in the day..prior to 68. I never had a problem with my Universal or my friend's Iver Johnson. It'll hold ya over till you get a military carbine. They are a lot of fun and welcome to the forum:1948: I wish you well in your quest:usa2:. Rich
The earlier production was a direct copy of the military rifle, the later design was different insofar as the piston and guide rods were changed. I do not recall any changes to the bolt.
Later production was "spotty" on quality and shooting results varied wildly. Remove the action from the stock and if it is the same as a military rifle you are good.
Johan412th
06-04-2015, 01:57
So my local shop has a new never been fired iver Johnson ww2 commemorative edition (1941-1991) for 695... Is it a good rifle and/or a good deal? Also, one of the carbines has an m14 style flash suppressor... Does anyone know what make it is and where can I get one?
So my local shop has a new never been fired iver Johnson ww2 commemorative edition (1941-1991) for 695... Is it a good rifle and/or a good deal? Also, one of the carbines has an m14 style flash suppressor... Does anyone know what make it is and where can I get one?
Up to you.
For $695 I would pass quickly by. $450.00 at the most and I wouldn't be interested. It may be a WWII commemorative but it has no collector value. For $695.00 and $100.00 (+/-) more and you are within striking distance of a decent, genuine USGI gun that will retain or increase in value.
Have no knowledge of an M14 type flash suppressor for an M1 carbine. Commercial add on ?
The flash suppressor is not a normal carbine accessory for any commercial or USGI carbine and was most likely added by a previous owner.
So my local shop has a new never been fired iver Johnson ww2 commemorative edition (1941-1991) for 695... Is it a good rifle and/or a good deal? Also, one of the carbines has an m14 style flash suppressor... Does anyone know what make it is and where can I get one?
I have one of the Iver Johnson with the "1941 -1991 50th Anniversary" marked slide and the flag disk on the stock. These carbines were the last carbines produced by Iver Johnson before they went bankrupt. The quality was varied on the last production. My example required a little adjustment to prevent the hammer from following the bolt occasionally. After the repairs it has functioned as reliably as other commercial M1 carbines. My Iver Johnson has a very well figured stock and a good finish on on the metal. I purchased it many years ago for less than half the price of a military M1 carbine.
I also purchased an IJ stainless steel carbine when they first were produced and it was OK but nothing special. Someone was willing to pay more than I paid so I pocketed the money and they took the stainless IJ.
I now have four [4] Iver Johnson .30 caliber carbines.
And one has a reproduction folding stock.
They are ok.
The first stainless model split it's extractor.
Replaced with a standard mil-spec and it is fine.
Found a pawn shop SS with a plastic stock.
Some failure to fire at the range, will need to strip and clean it.
Hey, it shoots and that is what counts.
The SS models have a lower quality metal, in my opinion,
than other firearms, but they were "pioneers" for the time.
Oh, Houston Police Dept. recovered my Plainfield stolen in
1991! Court date on my notes, soon. The Plainfields have
different manufacturing "shortcuts".
I The Plainfields have
different manufacturing "shortcuts".
I have two Plainfield carbines built from CMP receivers. Both receivers had military barrels and accepted GI parts. I believe some Plainfield carbines were returned with the Military Assistance Program rifles from South America. I think the receivers were the only non GI parts on the export carbines.
Faulkner
06-14-2015, 02:15
I've owned a dozen Iver Johnson M1 carbines. I was fortunate enough to be aware of when Iver Johnson was going out of business after they'd moved to Jacksonville, Arkansas. I bought a number of Iver Johnson firearms at fire sale prices, including a number of carbines. Most of these would be the late production models and I can attest that they were of acceptable fit and finish and IJ parts were interchangable with USGI carbine parts. I took one mixmaster USGI Inland carbine I had and swapped all kinds of parts around with one of the IJ carbines and never had an issue with part interchangability or the function of the carbines with mixed USGI and IJ parts. The IJ receiver is not as good a quality as a USGI receiver, but the IJ is completely serviceable.
Although I have a good number of USGI carbines in my colleciton, I find I do a lot of shooting with an Iver Johnson and it's always the one I hand out when I take others to the range. I reload .30 carbine ammo and I've run hundreds of rounds through them without any more issues than one would have with a USGI carbine, and that's usually magazine issues.
Unlike some folks who poo-poo Iver Johnson carbines without any real hands on experiance, my experiance has been that they are an acceptably less expensive shooters than most USGI carbines these days. Oh, I much prefer USGI carbines like everyone else, and I probably would not have ever bought one (much less 12) If I'd not gotten them brand new on the cheap, but my experiance has not been the least bit negative with them as a functional firearm.
Here is the image of one of mine that's still new in the box that I bought about 20+ years ago.
http://pic100.picturetrail.com/VOL488/1124764/6541000/29845605.jpg
The military bought a large number of Plainfield carbines but not for the troops. It was for the DOD police departments on military bases around the country. When bases were closed the carbines went into storage and finally they went to CMP. Some base police departments may still have some in inventory.
The military bought a large number of Plainfield carbines but not for the troops. It was for the DOD police departments on military bases around the country. When bases were closed the carbines went into storage and finally they went to CMP. Some base police departments may still have some in inventory.
Years ago I bought a large quantity of Plainfield (mostly) carbine barrels from an individual. I asked him where the barrels came from, he didn't really know but had heard they were from carbines issued during the "Bay of Pigs" uprising. Strangely all the receivers he had were demilled and all Inland. There may not be any connection between the receivers and barrels though because he had no other parts in quantity.
The flash suppressor is not a normal carbine accessory for any commercial or USGI carbine and was most likely added by a previous owner.
If you mean an M-14 type flash suppressor, I'd agree. See here (http://www.billricca.com/carbfh.htm) for Bill Ricca's input on carbine flash hiders.
I have two Plainfield carbines built from CMP receivers. Both receivers had military barrels and accepted GI parts. I believe some Plainfield carbines were returned with the Military Assistance Program rifles from South America. I think the receivers were the only non GI parts on the export carbines.
The military bought a large number of Plainfield carbines but not for the troops. It was for the DOD police departments on military bases around the country. When bases were closed the carbines went into storage and finally they went to CMP. Some base police departments may still have some in inventory.
Best guess about the Plainfield carbine receivers from El Salvador is that they originated in a pawn shop in South Texas and migrated south during one of the unrestful periods in the past.
As far as DoD buying Plainfield carbines for DoD police, I'd have to see some documentation on that one. When CMP sold carbine barreled receivers several years ago, the only provenance was that El Salvador returned them along with whatever MAP carbines they returned.
Best guess about the Plainfield carbine receivers from El Salvador is that they originated in a pawn shop in South Texas and migrated south during one of the unrestful periods in the past.
As far as DoD buying Plainfield carbines for DoD police, I'd have to see some documentation on that one. When CMP sold carbine barreled receivers several years ago, the only provenance was that El Salvador returned them along with whatever MAP carbines they returned.
On the way back machine https://web.archive.org/web/20060414173725/http://www.odcmp.com/rifles/carbine.htm not much information was provided about the 176 Universal and 256 Plainfield receivers. All of these receivers, to include the commercial non-military Plainfield and Universal, were transferred to the CMP by the the US Army.
At $50 each, I ordered two Plainfields and a $225 'S''G' receiver that was in the IP serial range.
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