Winchester trench #926xxx

[colt thompson]

Looking at this trench and it has a 4 hole handguard and a GHD stock.

Seems like it should be 6 hole and WB.

The parts all have the same wear so they've been together for a while

Thoughts

[scosgt]

6 ROW and WB would be correct. No way is it a 4 row at that serial range.

[colt thompson]

The seller states that this exact shotgun serial number is listed in Poyers book.
I don't have it here at work so I can't confirm that

[Tom Doniphon]

I have some info on a few other trench guns in that serial number range and lower that have GHD marked buttstocks, 4 row heat shields, and US and Ord bomb on the receiver. These could be early serialized receivers that sat around at Winchester and were not US and Ord bomb marked and then assembled until later. Purely speculation on my part, but how does one explain these early serialized receivers with both the US and Ord bomb marks?

Is the receiver US marked only or does it have both the US and Ord bomb marks?

[westgard]

FWIW, I checked in Poyer's book, page 29 says:
"The highest M97 Trench or Riot Gun serial number included in the survey with the initials "W.B." was 926,809. The lowest serial number with the initials "G.H.D." was 926,140. Both had barrels dated '42'. Barrel and stock appeared to be original to their receivers."

I couldn't find his reference for 'the survey'....

[Tom Doniphon]

Poyer is wrong if he claims the highest WB Model 97 is 926,809. There are many WB marked guns with higher numbers.

[westgard]

Personally, I have the Poyer book, but I don't ever use it as a go-to reference.....

[scosgt]

In my opinion, Poyers book is crap. I wrote to him to point out his many errors, and he sent me back a very nasty letter. I would not use it for wrapping fish.

[westgard]

I was trying to be diplomatic, but yes, you are right, I have found it to have too many errors to be a reliable source of information.:icon_lol:

[scosgt]

I think what he did was look and get records of many guns, and record the characteristics, and say therefore, "I have seen this several times, it must be right".
The problem is that with all the faking of trench guns, that method is flawed.

[SPEEDGUNNER]

Is this it? More detail:

http://sturmgewehr.com/webBBS/collectors.cgi?read=49226

I have a Winchester model 1897 "trench gun" that I am going to sell.
I will be 80 in two months and neither of our two surviving sons has any interest in any of my military guns.
If you are looking for a Chinese repro., a cut down Win. civilian gun that someone has converted to look like a military trench gun, or a cowboy action shooter this is NOT the gun for you.
This is a TRUE military trench gun made in early 1941.

Serial number 926140 on both the receiver and the mag. extension.
20" barrel, 2.75" chamber, cyl. bore, Win. proof & mil. flaming bomb on the top of the bbl.
U.S. and flaming bomb on the left side of the receiver (above the trigger guard and both on the same line), inspector's cartouche (GHD in a box) on the left side of the butt stock, high comb wood with a Win. hard rubber butt plate.
Original 18 groove forend that does have three cracks (2", 1.5" &1") at the aft end of the slide but they do NOT seem to weaken the wood or effect the function of the slide.
No cracks, chips, dings or repairs in the butt stock.
The bore is good with no rust or corrosion.
Four row vent. upper hand guard, bayonet lug w/sling swivel and bead front sight on top of the lug.
Leather 1907 type sling with brass claw fittings. Sling is marked "W.K.G." and has another marking on the lower section that I cannot make out. I suspect that the lower section is a replacement due to the different marking and different rivets in the lower claw fitting. The sling is in good, but not perfect, condition.
The receiver, barrel, mag. tube and lug blue have faded to a uniform plum color.

Comes with a Win. marked 17" type 1 bayonet dated 1917 w/ flaming bomb, U.S. a "X", and some other inspector stamp that I cannot discern next to the flaming bomb. The bayo. has NOT been sharpened but was probably blued or Parked at some point in time.
The scabbard is olive green, type 2 1917 with a small "M.S." on the back side.
WW2 style web pistol belt that is marked, but my old eyes cannot make out the marking.

The gun functions and fires fine although I have only shot it with low brass target loads and I have NOT "slam" fired it.

The gun IS MENTIONED BY S/N in Joe Poyer's book: "U.S. Winchester Trench and Riot Guns and Other U.S. Combat Shotguns."
This book is included with the gun.

The price is $4,000 shipped via UPS ground to your FFL or C&R. Make sure that your FFL will accept shipment from a non FFL holder.
Insurance is extra. This is an expensive gun and I recommend insurance.
Five day "No Shoot" inspection and buyer pays return shipping.
Pics are available and I would expect any buyer to do a reference check on me.
Call or e-mail with any questions.

Don
(805) 529-1639

[scosgt]

Run don't walk away from this one.
High comb wood is wrong. Belongs on a solid frame gun from WWI. There would NEVER be a cartouche on a high comb stock.
While anything is possible, that serial number should not have a flaming bomb on the receiver.
It SHOULD have a 6 row handguard.
The cartouche almost certainly should be WB.
I would not pay $400 for it much less $4000

[scosgt]

Literally nothing is "right" on this gun. Or the bayonet for that matter LOL.