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View Full Version : Dick Hosmer, what kind of Krag is this...?


Fred
08-01-2015, 04:58
on Gunbroker...

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=496895993
Plain Old Dave
08-01-2015, 09:18
That's what we call a School Gun.

http://www.library.vanderbilt.edu/speccol/exhibits/preparatory/pix/tmi2.jpg

Those are all almost identical to that gun. Stokes Kirk and Bannerman made a cottage industry out of cutting Krags down to M1903 dimensions for private military colleges like TMI and a trainload of others that all used to advertise in the back pages of the National Geographic years ago.
Dick Hosmer
08-02-2015, 12:21
Well, not exactly.

The parties mentioned certainly did cut down Krags, to various lengths, often using 1903 barrels. The example shown has a whacked Krag barrel.

Real carbines were 22", rifles were 30". SA did make up 100 special rifles in 1902 with 26" barrels - they have special sights and a unique stock, and only occur in the 387-389K range.

The term "school gun" is usually applied only to a very specific "official" blend of a shortened M1898 rifle stock with an M1899 carbine barreled action. The end of the barrel is turned down to accept the standard bayonet ring. The lug is beveled to take the M1905 bayonet - which was the intended component, not the normal Krag item. About 7000 were converted, mostly at SA. This is exactly the same configuration as the "Philippine Constabulary Rifle" made at the Manila Ordnance Depot, of which no examples are known to have survived - at least in the US.

The GB item is a commercial cutoff. Its' nice condition would have made it look like a rare model back in the days before the better books began to appear in the 1980s. It is a "good deal" since the accessories included are worth around $250 by themselves. (I'm not bidding - have at it).
Fred
08-02-2015, 02:35
Oh I'm not interested in it. I just thought that it was of interest, not having the barrel turned down. I wonder how the front band was fitted.
dave
08-02-2015, 07:00
It is what I would call an "American Legion" rifle. I have one (my shooter) but doubt they are worth any where near 600 dollars! As I am not an exclusive Krag collector the 'accessories' are something I will not spend big money on but to each his own. The 1898 date gives it away as well as the 24"barrel.!
Dick Hosmer
08-02-2015, 07:35
Oh I'm not interested in it. I just thought that it was of interest, not having the barrel turned down. I wonder how the front band was fitted.

From what I have read, they were cold-pressed, over a mandrel, just as a jeweler would do with a ring. Such a tool would have required intricate profiling, and the band would be stuck on pretty damn tight.
dave
08-02-2015, 03:29
And the one I have is a poor fit!
butlersrangers
08-02-2015, 08:34
FWIW: None of the GB pics showed the front sight base and blade. These features were hidden by a carbine front sight protector (worth around $100). This is all academic, since the barrel length (24 inches) is wrong for all U.S. Krag models. It has to be a Krag rifle that someone cut-down.
dave
08-03-2015, 06:40
I saw one recently at a gun show, and while I did not take measurements it had VFW Post (number) stamped in stock. The one I have has a regular Krag front sight, barrel turned and sleeve/sight installed.
Dick Hosmer
08-03-2015, 08:22
FWIW: None of the GB pics showed the front sight base and blade. These features were hidden by a carbine front sight protector (worth around $100). This is all academic, since the barrel length (24 inches) is wrong for all U.S. Krag models. It has to be a Krag rifle that someone cut-down.

I've not seen an ad for less than $200 recently. I could use a few, but am not going to pay that kind of money - besides it's fun to prowl the junk boxes at shows.
Dick Hosmer
08-03-2015, 08:27
I saw one recently at a gun show, and while I did not take measurements it had VFW Post (number) stamped in stock. The one I have has a regular Krag front sight, barrel turned and sleeve/sight installed.

And I'll bet yours has a 22" barrel, if is turned for the bayonet.

BTW, I like your "American Legion rifle" term as a name for the 24" parade guns.

Mine:
butlersrangers
08-03-2015, 08:48
'dave': What do you mean by "sleeve/sight"? Its sounds like you are describing the 1903 Springfield front-sight.

Many gun smiths (professional and amatuer) put the 1903 Springfield 'banded' front-sight on shortened Krag barrels to make 'sporters'.

Springfield Armory only did this in the 1920s on 22 inch barrels to make the so-called NRA or DCM 'carbine for public sale.