1903 sight collar

[wolley]

Not getting any traction at the CMP forums. Too many collectors and not enough mechanics?
Looking for fresh ideas.

I need to remove a rear sight collar.
I did locate and remove the pin. That was a bit of fun as it had been ground flush and was not easily spotted.
I have applied heat and kroil. This thing ain't budging.
Really don't want to destroy it.
I don't have access to a lathe to make a sleeve.
I saw a post on Jousters from 2012 where someone was selling tools to remove and install them. I can't find a similar tool anywhere.
ChuckinDenver claims to take then off without removing the barrel. I would love to know how he does this. I guess it's a secret?


The reason? I have a barrel that severely over indexes and either needs a shim or to have the shoulder rolled/peened. I cant peen or roll the shoulder with the sight collar on. I cannot find a shim anywhere. I need a .0015"-.002" to properly time the barrel.

[louis]

Maybe try a machine shop to punch you some stainless steel shims. I did a few years ago had the same problem

[Col. Colt]

The tools sold on Ebay seemed to work very well - but I only used the installers, not the remover. But I did check them all for fit, and it was Exact, very good tools. If I find the seller's eBay handle, I'll post it. You might find the info with a good search here using "sight collar" and 1903, or M1903, "removing", etc.
You do need the barrel off the reciever and the pin out, of course. And if you don't leave the moveable rear sight base in the collar (remove the sight leaf itself) to support the thin end segements, you WILL DESTROY IT!

If you cannot find the premade tools, It seems to me that someone here posted a picture of some standard diameter copper pipe (plumbing) that was the exact right diameter and about two feet long to fit the collar at the back, and used it and a 2x4, dead blow mallet, etc, to drive it off to the front. Take the barrel/collar to a plumbing supply and have a look! Kroil or heat may still have value if done cautiously with the right timing. Go slow, and think about the forces involved. CC

PS - Maker of the tool:

Ed Kee
409 Wakefield Rd.
Montgomery, Tx 77316-5106
ekee@cebridge.net
C) 281-658-7189

[wolley]

Thanks! Someone on the CMP forum posted the same gentleman's contact info. I've contacted him and although he doesn't have any ready he is willing to make a set in the next couple of weeks. I think the tools would worth the investment.

[Col. Colt]

With the increasing cost and scarcity of nice, original 1903 parts, it is worth spending a little to insure you don't destroy them! Good tooling makes an iffy job into an easy job, in this case. The 1903 Sight Collar tools have good fit and full contact with the surface involved to spread the force and not damage the part.

I would suggest anyone else who is "into" 1903s on a permanent basis - and may have barrel work in his future - contact the maker and get a set of these tools while they are still available - he makes them in small batches. When he quits/passes on, etc, they may no longer be available.

I notice the collar is being reproduced - but it won't be the same, particularly if it is chinese. CC

[Fred Pillot]

Make a stainless steel shim. I did it for the same reason on a '17 Enfield. You can use a paper hole punch for the I.D. and scissors for the O.D.

[Randy A]

They're frowned upon but yes there are shims available, in which case there's no need to remove the rear sight base.... is this a new or used barrel?

[Randy A]

here's an old post,

Originally Posted by 1903shooter
I have found over my years of collecting and working on 1903 rifles that a lot of (if not all) National Match rifles have a round shim between the face of the receiver & the facing shoulder of the barrel. On close examination of the receiver it appears that the arsenal faced the face of the receiver so that was perfect mating surface between the barrel and receiver. So it is possible that you have a receiver that was originally on a NM rifle. Or possibly a receiver that someone found the need to reface the receiver. In either case all you have to do is find a suitable round shim. There used to be a guy on ebay that sold them but that was several years ago. If I remember right he was selling shims that were used on hobby trains??? I just checked and found the receipt from the last set of shims I bought. Here is the information you need to get a set of shims. A MAIN HOBBIES 349 Huss Drive, Chico, CA 95928 1-800-705-2215, Model KYO96646, Kyosho 12x15mm Shim Set, the price in 2007 was $5.25 plus $3.18 shipping The set included 10 shims. They also have a website AMAINHOBBIES.com

I've seen them elsewhere before but didn't bother to remember, never planned on using any.

[Col. Colt]

If you think about it, facing the reciever (shortening it) would require either a shim or a special barrel with a longer shoulder - or rolling the edge of the barrel to take up the amount faced off - if you even could. Otherwise, the barrel would NOT Index and all the sight cuts, etc, would not line up. (Chamber depth is a separate issue that could be handled with short chambered barrels but the barrel index to "straight up" has to be delt with if you remove material from the reciever face or the back mating edge of the barrel. If it's good enough for 1920's to 1930's US Ordnance NM Armorers, it's probably just fine. CC

[wolley]

I would prefer to roll the shoulder.

[chuckindenver]

shims should not be used on square threads and a shoulder...ever

[chuckindenver]

i remove them every day...
some are tough.. some come right off

[purple]

here's an old post,

Originally Posted by 1903shooter
I have found over my years of collecting and working on 1903 rifles that a lot of (if not all) National Match rifles have a round shim between the face of the receiver & the facing shoulder of the barrel. On close examination of the receiver it appears that the arsenal faced the face of the receiver so that was perfect mating surface between the barrel and receiver. So it is possible that you have a receiver that was originally on a NM rifle. Or possibly a receiver that someone found the need to reface the receiver. In either case all you have to do is find a suitable round shim. There used to be a guy on ebay that sold them but that was several years ago. If I remember right he was selling shims that were used on hobby trains??? I just checked and found the receipt from the last set of shims I bought. Here is the information you need to get a set of shims. A MAIN HOBBIES 349 Huss Drive, Chico, CA 95928 1-800-705-2215, Model KYO96646, Kyosho 12x15mm Shim Set, the price in 2007 was $5.25 plus $3.18 shipping The set included 10 shims. They also have a website AMAINHOBBIES.com

I've seen them elsewhere before but didn't bother to remember, never planned on using any.

I think that you have your dimensions wrong here. 15mm equates to .590 and 12mm works out to .472. Both of these dimensions are way too small to get around an M1903 barrel at it's smallest diameter. Some time ago a gentleman on here kindly gave me a military M1903 barrel shim. It is .005 thick, 1.040 ID and 1.055 OD. The hand tight position of my barrel/receiver combination w/o the shim was 4 deg over index. With the shim is was -18 deg under index, right about where it should be.

[purple]

i remove them every day...
some are tough.. some come right off

When you re-install the sight base do you re-drill the hole for the pin that goes into the base/barrel from the rear? What about the cross pin at the bottom of the base? I've found that the bases fit tight enough to stay put w/o either of the pins.

[wolley]

So Chuck, what you are doing is using some kind of soft jawed vise insert(rumored to be PVC), clamping the collar in it and beating tooey out of the barrel's muzzle? Not on my rifle. Don't care what kind of material is used to protect the muzzle.

[chuckindenver]

no,,, thats not what Chuck is doing lol.
no PVC..
and the muzzle doesnt touch anything but air.
i drive the pin out..and using a broken rear sight as you see in the picture.
i use a brass flat nosed punch and dead blow hammer and drive the sight base off..
i make a tool to drive it back on so as not to damage the base.
chasing the hole for the pin is ok, but found it not needed to be done on most used barrels. it will have to be done on new barrels.
i dont use the rear pin..as they never line up right..

even if the pin wont go all the way through, i will at least put one in on each side, and finish it , so it doesnt look like crap

[Randy A]

I think that you have your dimensions wrong here. 15mm equates to .590 and 12mm works out to .472. Both of these dimensions are way too small to get around an M1903 barrel at it's smallest diameter. Some time ago a gentleman on here kindly gave me a military M1903 barrel shim. It is .005 thick, 1.040 ID and 1.055 OD. The hand tight position of my barrel/receiver combination w/o the shim was 4 deg over index. With the shim is was -18 deg under index, right about where it should be.

If you read the post it states "originally posted by 1903shooter" ...not my info. I too would never use shims, but it sounded like he wanted to know where to find some.

[purple]

If you read the post it states "originally posted by 1903shooter" ...not my info. I too would never use shims, but it sounded like he wanted to know where to find some.

Copy that. The info he gave is fallacious so I just wanted to correct that. Sorry.

[Punch the Clown]

http://www.mcmaster.com/#standard-shims/=yspmy4

The od will be a bit large but would trim easily with an xacto knife after installation.