Primer Seating Issue

[Art]

I have a bunch of S&B .303 British brass that I have trouble seating primer in. About one out of five wind up just a bit high, not a huge problem in a bolt action but an irritant. This does not happen in any of the other brass I use (Remington, Winchester, Hornady/Frontier.) The press is a Rockchucker. Has anyone else had this problem with this brass?

[Johnny P]

If you have a dial caliper use the end to check the primer pocket depth on the cases that won't allow the primer to seat properly. When you said a bunch I suppose that there is enough that you don't want to toss the entire lot, but you could toss those that are shallow.

RCBS makes a primer pocket uniformer, but may be cheaper to toss the brass.

[joem]

I did the pocket uniformer on some brass. I put the tool in a drill press and held the case with a channel lock plier. Worked great and you only have to do it once.

[Art]

Thanks guys, I have several hundred once fired cases of this stuff. I did toss the high primer ones last time. The pocket uniformer sounds interesting!

[Matt Anthony]

[QUOTE=joem;430500]I did the pocket uniformer on some brass. I put the tool in a drill press and held the case with a channel lock plier. Worked great and you only have to do it once.[/QU

I don't believe I just read you used pliers to hold the case. I just can't believe it.
Matt

[psteinmayer]

Agreed.... YIKES!

[PhillipM]

I read one post on a national match shooter's forum once that said everyone knows brass gets longer and has to be trimmed, but few know the primer pockets become shallower with each firing.

It was like a slap in face to me because I'd been wondering why I couldn't get the primers to seat below flush on well used cases. I bought a uniformer and used a battery drill to fix them up.

One thing I realized though, the uniformer loads up with chips quickly and has to be cleared often. Don't try to muscle it, just back it out and let the chips fall free.

[joem]

"I don't believe I just read you used pliers to hold the case. I just can't believe it. Matt

If you haven't tried it, why knock it. Drill press speed set above 600 RPM and the tool is carbide and very sharp. I did a 1000 for my friend and he primed, loaded and shoots them all the time.

[Tuna]

S&B are well known for having shallow primer pockets. The brass itself is OK but the time to work the primer pockets does not make it worth while. You will find this also with ammunition made by S&B for Winchester like the 7.62x54 and .303 Enfield.

[Matt Anthony]

[QUOTE=joem;430580]"I don't believe I just read you used pliers to hold the case. I just can't believe it. Matt

If you haven't tried it, why knock it. Drill press speed set above 600 RPM and the tool is carbide and very sharp. I did a 1000 for my friend and he primed, loaded and shoots them all the time.

I use Lapua cases which are expensive and I certainly would never use pliers to hold them for any case prep. I use the Wilson set up to trim and uniform the pockets. Another point is I benchrest, and not having the case perfectly straight to the cutter would be a waste of my time. I read this forum sometimes for pure amusement, and this was amusing.
Matt

[mikld]

Sure pliers are ok to use on brass cases, but the chance of ruining a case are pretty high. First, what happens if the tool digs in/grabs the case? Very common with soft metals. The sharp jaw serrations/teeth of the pliers will grind away at the brass. What happens if you wanna make sure the case doesn't spin and you hold it tight with the pliers? Crushed or gouged cases. Nope, not good machine shop/reloading shop practice. (lifelong machinist/mechanic)

I have found S&B primer pockets to vary some and most do not have enough chamfer at the pocket mouth; entry/mouth too sharp/square...

[tmark]

I reload for 30'06. I find that the primer pockets don't get shallower but wider to no longer have a snug primer in the pocket.

[psteinmayer]

I reload for 30'06. I find that the primer pockets don't get shallower but wider to no longer have a snug primer in the pocket.

One of the reasons that I use primer sealant on all of my 30-06, 30-40 and 7.7x58 brass!

[joem]

The cases I did were from 1942 and had smaller primer pockets then what is now standard. All that was necessary was to use the super swedge to start a larger primer pocket, then use the carbide cutter to make the correct size pocket for a L pistol primer. And I did't riun any cases.

[da gimp]

this might be a silly question.. but would using the Dillon primer pocket Swager tool help at all? When our brass gets so old that primer pockets are loose, we toss them.... I saw one reloaded USGI 5.56 case lose a primer, that the primer crimp was removed using the electric drill & carbide cutter method.... The guy that fired it, was an active duty USN pilot on the USS Enterprise back in the late 70's early/mid 1980's, he ended up with metal in his face, right hand & powder in his R eye.... it was touch & go whether he would be forced to retire as a pilot by the light surgeon.........after that I bought the Dillon swager & all of us around here use it....it is impossible to hurt the dern thing............

[PhillipM]

this might be a silly question.. but would using the Dillon primer pocket Swager tool help at all? When our brass gets so old that primer pockets are loose, we toss them.... I saw one reloaded USGI 5.56 case lose a primer, that the primer crimp was removed using the electric drill & carbide cutter method.... The guy that fired it, was an active duty USN pilot on the USS Enterprise back in the late 70's early/mid 1980's, he ended up with metal in his face, right hand & powder in his R eye.... it was touch & go whether he would be forced to retire as a pilot by the light surgeon.........after that I bought the Dillon swager & all of us around here use it....it is impossible to hurt the dern thing............

One of the huge failings of the AR-15 type rifle is when a primer pops out it immediately migrates to the trigger and locks it up and is a real bear to find and remove.

[joem]

this might be a silly question.. but would using the Dillon primer pocket Swager tool help at all?............

The cases were mil spec cases. The primer pocket was smaller and shallower so any primer made today and would not fit. After decap the super swedge
made a indentation as a place for the carbide cutter to align with the primer pocket. The cutter has a collar that sets the depth of the pocket. I saved a couple of the loaded rounds for display. Head stamp; FA 42

[mhb]

are shallower than U.S. standard - and their primers, which are readily available, work very well, while eliminating the need to alter the pockets.
S&B factory ammunition shows primers seated just flush with the case head, and quite flat - the S&B primers seat exactly the same way in standard priming tools, but are flush.
Guess how I know?

mhb - Mike

[Tuna]

But no one else's primers work. Not unless the pocket is deepened. Good brass but shallow pockets and one cannot always find S&B primers to reload with. In fact no dealers in my area carry them. That means I would have to go on line to get them so just not worth it for me. Any I find I use for trading or scrap.

[meterman]

S&B brass=candidates for the scrap bucket. I never cared for the grief that they cause, in all respects.

[swede49]

Had a similar issue with Starline 32 H&R Mag new brass. Seems like primer pocket depths were not 100% consistent, and with an RCBS handheld universal primer, I had difficulty seating about 10-15% of primers, with some slightly deformed around the margin, but seated sufficiently well to fire in a Ruger New Model Single Six.:1948::icon_rolleyes:

[fguffey]

I read one post on a national match shooter's forum once that said everyone knows brass gets longer and has to be trimmed, but few know the primer pockets become shallower with each firing.

It was like a slap in face to me because I'd been wondering why I couldn't get the primers to seat below flush on well used cases. I bought a uniformer and used a battery drill to fix them up.

One thing I realized though, the uniformer loads up with chips quickly and has to be cleared often. Don't try to muscle it, just back it out and let the chips fall free.


For years and years reloaders have read pressure based on the condition of the primer. Before the Internet reloaders used case head expansion. I have a flash hole gage. It measure the diameter of the flash hole, problem; if the reloader does not measure the diameter of the flash hole before firing he is wasting his time measuring after firing. After that it is a matter of being able to keep up with the flash hole, diameter of the primer pocket and diameter of the case head. If the flash hole increases in diameter, primer pocket also increases in diameter and then there is case head expansion. If the case head expands it shorten from the top of the cup above the web of the case to the case head. And then there is deductive reasoning; if the case head decreases in thickness why wouldn't the depth of the primer pocket decrease.

I have the RCBS case prep center with 5 positions; one of the positions has the primer pocket uniformer. It could be cleaning the primer pocket and it could keep the depth of the primer pocket uniform.

In the old days it was decided case head expansions was acceptable at .00025”. That did not mean after 5 firings the case head expanded .00125”.

F. Guffey

[PhillipM]

Thanks for that, F. Guffey!

[bigedp51]

I have a bunch of S&B .303 British brass that I have trouble seating primer in. About one out of five wind up just a bit high, not a huge problem in a bolt action but an irritant. This does not happen in any of the other brass I use (Remington, Winchester, Hornady/Frontier.) The press is a Rockchucker. Has anyone else had this problem with this brass?

All you need is a primer pocket uniformer and uniform all your primer pockets and you will have the same depth on all your brass.

Below a Hornady case prep trio and the uniformer is in the top position with the deburring tools in the bottom.

http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o254/bigedp51/trimmers-b_zps161eba67.jpg

[fguffey]

I have the RCBS case prep center with 5 positions; one of the positions has the primer pocket uniformer. It could be cleaning the primer pocket and it could keep the depth of the primer pocket uniform.




Thanks for that,

You are welcome.

Remember; there is a chance the case did not start with the problem but developed the problem after being hammered with heavy loads. After that it gets complicated because of case head separation.

F. Guffey

[Merc]

I've been using PPU cases to reload .303 British. They're cheap and the new primers always fit properly. The PPU cases are heavier than most (especially Winchester and Remington) so they hold up well to multiple reloads as long as you neck size only and anneal the necks occasionally. Enfields are always tough on brass.

Merc

[fguffey]

I read one post on a national match shooter's forum once that said everyone knows brass gets longer and has to be trimmed, but few know the primer pockets become shallower with each firing.
.

And? That was it? They did not say anything else? They should have said the case head crushes when hammered with heavy loads; and then after that they should have said the case head increases in diameter and after that they should have said the flash hole increases in diameter. I always say "who knows?"; No one knows because no one measure before and again after.

And then there was a time I would ask what effect does all of this have on case head separation; I do not get answers, it seems it is not the question but the person asking the questions that gets all of the attention.

F. Guffey