View Full Version : RIA question
Looking at a RIA 1903 serial number 2358XX. Barrel RIA 7/13 which I believe is original. Stock is good no cracks but it is a single bolt stock. I thought 1913 would be a little late for a single bolt stock if its original to the gun or am I mistaken. Stocks got a few dings but no cracks.
He also had a SF 1903 serial number in 600,000 with a 1916 barrel also in a single bolt stock. This guns finish and stock were better but stock was sanded destroying all marks,,,,grrr.
Rick the Librarian
09-17-2015, 11:50
Rock Island M1903s had single bolt stocks from roughly 1908 to the end of 1913 production. Any inspection stamps on the stock? The stock should have a large 1/4" "S" stamped on the foretip.
Yes the stock had the inspection stamps on the fore tip. There is a cartouche on the left side of stock under receiver but due to a dent and wear I could not read it. It had the serif P also. I thought the stock was legit but for some reason I thought 1910 or 1911 was when the second stock bolt went into production.
Rick the Librarian
09-17-2015, 03:37
The second stock bolt started about 1917, after production (at RIA) had restarted.
A correct inspection stamp for your rifle would be a CN/1913 in a box and in script.
Can you post pictures?
Kragrifle
09-18-2015, 05:15
Did RIA not produce rifles from 1913-1917?
Did RIA not produce rifles from 1913-1917?
No, they did not.
Rick the Librarian
09-18-2015, 05:42
They may have started producing parts, at least, in late 1916.
The reason for the shutdown was that it was felt that enough M1903s had been produced for the Regular Army and National Guard and that Springfield Armory could take care of anticipated future needs. Of course it turned out to be really bad timing because a few years later, the U.S. got involved in World War I and we needed all the rifles we could get. Worse, the workers who had jobs at RIA had scattered to the four winds and it took awhile to round up more. Conrad Nelson, for example, whose inspection stamp was on nearly all RIA M1903s of the pre-1914 era, got a job working at Eddystone, IIRC.
If you don't have CS Ferris' book on the Rock Island M1903, you should get it!!
Have not bought it yet still a little apart on price. .....If I buy it I'll post plenty here. I don't have a single bolt stock 1903 so I'm trying to fill that gap. Course that only means there is another gap somewhere else.
Heck, I've only got five 03's. There's gaps all around me for 360 degrees. LOL
Fred he had 32 to look at...Doesn't that equal 32 gaps.....Per my wife approving one was very generous....lol
I know, my wife has to give the OK on my acquisitions or it just ain't gonna happen.
Ed Byrns
09-20-2015, 04:18
RIA 1903 serial number 2358XX. Barrel RIA 7/13
sounds like an RIA /NRA rifle
Respectfully
Ed Byrns
Hey Ed! You get the photos I sent you?
RIA 1903 serial number 2358XX. Barrel RIA 7/13
sounds like an RIA /NRA rifle
Respectfully
Ed Byrns
Weren't NRA rifles in cut down stocks? This one is in a full military single bolt stock.
John Beard
09-21-2015, 07:27
Weren't NRA rifles in cut down stocks? This one is in a full military single bolt stock.
I am not Ed Byrns, but NRA rifles were in full military single-bolt stocks. The very last few were in 2-bolt stocks, but those are very rare.
Hope this helps.
J.B.
p.s.,
If you'll post or email me the complete serial number, I'll see how it fits in my NRA rifle data base. I concur with Ed that the serial number appears to fit.
p.p.s.,
There's a good chance that the SA rifle is also an NRA rifle.
Kragrifle
09-22-2015, 05:39
I bought that book when it first came out. I have found over the years that merely buying the book (and not reading it) does not work well!
The second stock bolt was approved for manufacture in April of 1917.
John I sent you a PM with the serial number.
Also can anyone that's into these older 03's (My first interest was in 03A3's but I know just enough about 03's to make bad decisions) give an opinion on if this rifle is a RIA/NRA rifle if it adds to the value. I offered a price based on a decent RIA 1913 (low serial number obviously) with correct barrel (serial number range) and RIA stock (I'm not good enough to say for sure all small parts are RIA but I took a friend that is. Without taking it apart he said from what he saw it looks like it either made it through life as is, or someone corrected it at some time). The stock cartouche on the left side is not clear and there was some surface rust that should clean up on the top of the receiver and bolt. We are still a good distance apart on price. He never mentioned it being an NRA gun so I doubt he knows that. I spent some time on google/bing and did not find an answer so thought I'd solicit opinions.
John Beard
09-22-2015, 07:49
John I sent you a PM with the serial number.
Also can anyone that's into these older 03's (My first interest was in 03A3's but I know just enough about 03's to make bad decisions) give an opinion on if this rifle is a RIA/NRA rifle if it adds to the value. I offered a price based on a decent RIA 1913 (low serial number obviously) with correct barrel (serial number range) and RIA stock (I'm not good enough to say for sure all small parts are RIA but I took a friend that is. Without taking it apart he said from what he saw it looks like it either made it through life as is, or someone corrected it at some time). The stock cartouche on the left side is not clear and there was some surface rust that should clean up on the top of the receiver and bolt. We are still a good distance apart on price. He never mentioned it being an NRA gun so I doubt he knows that. I spent some time on google/bing and did not find an answer so thought I'd solicit opinions.
Thanks for your message! Reply sent.
You definitely have a sales rifle. As I pointed out in my message, not all sales rifles were sold to NRA members and not all were marked "N.R.A." But they're sales rifles nevertheless.
I do not believe that the "N.R.A." marking adds value. However, most sales rifles tend to be in well-above-average original condition, and that adds value! I sent you a description of the stock cartouche, and that may help you recognize it.
Hope this helps. I look forward to your reply!
J.B.
Alright, if I can't get it bought I will see if he lets me photograph it and post pics at least.
Thanks for the help, I appreciate it.
Shane
It took me a year and a half of staying in contact but I finally brought this 1903 home, which I believe to be a unmarked 1913 NRA sales rifle. I'll post pics for scrutiny below but first a general description.
First it was stored in a commercial 3/4s scabbard for years. The scabbard had a ring on it so I assume it was for a saddle but I'm not a horse person. The scabbard was poor and I didn't want it. It was lined with white fiber padding. Many were stuck to the stock. I used a cotton cloth and BLO and was able to get all the fibers off. In cleaning it up the blueing that was covered (rear sight forward) is in much better shape than the bluing that was exposed.
The seller bought it in mid 90s, but doesn't know any previous history. It came in scabbard and he stored it in it. I'm surprised there was no rust on the covered area, generally storing rifles like that does not go well.
In previous life it's been shot some as muzzle is 1.5. Bore is dark but lands and groves strong.
Cartouche was rubbed out. Has Large S on end of stock and Serif P so it's a 1904 to 1913 Rock Island. Only theory I would have is when the drama over how to tell a government 03 from a NRA 03 in 1915 maybe owner decided to destroy Goverment inspectors mark.The box is still there and the measurements are right for Conrad Nelson, just defaced....just a theory. The wood grain is very nice hopefully my IPAD camera will pick it up.
Barrel is Rock Island 7 of 13 with serial of 235820. This appears to jive with JBs database. Bolt has small R on bottom of bolt handle but I can't see anything else. I'll have to clean some crud off the safety lug to see the heat lot.
Comments welcome.
John Beard
04-06-2017, 09:19
Congratulations! Thanks for taking the time to make and post pictures!
J.B.
Rick the Librarian
04-07-2017, 06:02
Forgive me if you stated this elsewhere, but is there an NRA stamp on the forward tang of the trigger guard? The serial number is in the range for those NRA Sales rifles I have observed in the past. Thanks for the pictures!
No this one is not marked with the N.R.A. Mark
Kragrifle
04-08-2017, 05:33
Would appreciate help with a Rock Island 1903 I have been looking at for years. As I remember it is in the high 200000 range, barrel date around 1918. This rifle has two recoil lugs, an Eagle head cartouche and a very unusual, but matching handguard with a different shape than I have ever seen on a 1903 rifle. Could this be a real Rock Island produced rifle ? Sorry I don't have photos, but as yet I do not own the rifle but have seen it a large gun show for a long time!
Would appreciate help with a Rock Island 1903 I have been looking at for years. As I remember it is in the high 200000 range, barrel date around 1918. This rifle has two recoil lugs, an Eagle head cartouche and a very unusual, but matching handguard with a different shape than I have ever seen on a 1903 rifle. Could this be a real Rock Island produced rifle ? Sorry I don't have photos, but as yet I do not own the rifle but have seen it a large gun show for a long time!
Without pics it's hard to hazard a guess. Does it have Rock Island stamped above the serial number. when Rock Island fired back up in late 1916 they started stamping end of stock with RI, so if a RI stock this should be there.
Kragrifle
04-09-2017, 05:52
I don't own the rifle but have seen it multiple times over the last 10 years at the same show! Always a bad sign. I now understand the rifle came out of the Benicia arsenal years ago.
I don't own the rifle but have seen it multiple times over the last 10 years at the same show! Always a bad sign. I now understand the rifle came out of the Benicia arsenal years ago.
Kind of like those listings you see on gunbroker for months on end. Sometimes you can message the owner with an offer though and you can get a good deal out of their frustration.
John Beard
04-09-2017, 06:24
Rock Island did not mark their stocks with an Eagle Head cartouche.
J.B.
Kragrifle
04-13-2017, 05:13
Thanks John
Would appreciate help with a Rock Island 1903 I have been looking at for years. As I remember it is in the high 200000 range, barrel date around 1918. This rifle has two recoil lugs, an Eagle head cartouche and a very unusual, but matching handguard with a different shape than I have ever seen on a 1903 rifle. Could this be a real Rock Island produced rifle ? Sorry I don't have photos, but as yet I do not own the rifle but have seen it a large gun show for a long time!
Yep, I think the only 1903 Stocks with the Eagle head stamped on the left side are from Springfield Armory during 1918.
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