The MC1952, the Marines M1C

[cplnorton]

This is something that was on my bucket list and I finally have it together after about 10 years of looking. I did piece this together but everything is real. The M1C rifle is from the CMP and the nice thing is, it's within about 400 digits of two documented MC1952 rifles. The mount and scope are both the later MC1 versions. Really about the only flaw is the scope has ring marks on it from being used on some other application. But after seeing what one sold for on Ebay last week and what I paid for this one, I can never complain.

I have to admit I love this setup for actual use. The Kollmorgen scope blows away all the other scopes from the time period like the USMC Unertl 8X and the M82/84. I could see why the Marines were found of it. I know I am. I hope you guys enjoy it.



http://i1282.photobucket.com/albums/a535/cplnorton11/MC1952/P1260571_zpsbvwarwvu.jpg

http://i1282.photobucket.com/albums/a535/cplnorton11/MC1952/P1260849_zpsxmc5z4cw.jpg

http://i1282.photobucket.com/albums/a535/cplnorton11/MC1952/P1260843_zpsbfqygyu2.jpg

http://i1282.photobucket.com/albums/a535/cplnorton11/MC1952/P1260856_zpsfvtbuqeu.jpg

http://i1282.photobucket.com/albums/a535/cplnorton11/MC1952/P1260585_zps0hqy7jzf.jpg

[Dan Shapiro]

Nice work! :headbang:

[jgaynor]

Very nice rig Steve. Interesting rifle about which very little is known. Kollmorgen was acquired by Redfield around 1957 and or course Redfield scopes were used by the USMC on the Vietnam Era Remington 700 snipers.

[cplnorton]

I would love to see a actual picture of one being used in the Marines but as far as I know one doesn't exist.

Which is really weird because we have a ton of photos of Marines with the M1D, even in Vietnam, but I've never seen a pic of the MC1952. Which just makes me wonder why when the kollmorgen scope is light years ahead of the m84.

The only thing that makes sense to me is there just wasn't very many of them built.

[CPC]

Very nice set up Steve. Do you think that scope may have been refurbished? The few that I have seen had a consistent color on the scope. Your scope appears to have two colors, and I have seen both shades of finish used, just not on the same scope. They are great optics though. My father used to use a 4X Kollmorgen post reticle on his hunting rifle. Unfortunately even though it was purchased in the 50's it was the civilian type. Thanks for sharing another great rifle from your collection.

CC

[cplnorton]

It could be possible or even some type of transitional one, I asked Dave McClain the same thing and he didn't know. The body does not have the serial number on it, and the eyepiece does not have the FSN number. But the body and eyepiece are both correct for the Marine Corps contract. Otherwise the eyepiece is not from a commercial bear cub. It's a 4X double marked one.

Kollmorgen might have had extra eyepieces from the 1st run and used them on the early 2nd run. Or the eyepiece could have been damaged and they swapped it from another Marine scope, or there could be any number of scenarios that would work.

They say there are less than 50 of these scopes out there, so it's really hard to gather a ton of info on them because there are so few to study and even less documentation on them.

Not matter what the answer is, if you guys knew what I paid for that scope, you would probably put me in jail for theft. So I can never complain. :)

[Johnny in Texas]

Eye piece is from the early version of the scope does it have a s/n on the tube?

[cplnorton]

No, no serial on the tube.

[Cass]

Nice set-up! As you've all discussed, the body is the second type Kollmorgen and the eye piece is the first type.

I doubt that it was a transitional scope or that it was produced that way by Kollmorgen since the first contract and replacement contract were six or seven years apart (about 1952 and 1959). More likely it was swapped out later by the USMC or another owner.

I have found one commercial Kollmorgen scope that has an eye piece with identical markings to the first type MC scope, but as you've said most of the commercial scopes are marked Bear Cub.

Cass

[cplnorton]

The guy I got the scope from found it at a thrift store for $8. I think we all dream of finds like that. lol

[Cass]

The guy I got the scope from found it at a thrift store for $8. I think we all dream of finds like that. lol

Ha, can't go wrong with that price!

[CPC]

Great info... for the price that you probably paid... Semper Gumby, is going to keep you awake at night or at least he should...ha ha

[FlightRN]

[QUOTE=cplnorton;431247] They say there are less than 50 of these scopes out there, so it's really hard to gather a ton of info on them because there are so few to study and even less documentation on them. [QUOTE]

Good Day,
Great looking set up. I 'm please to see another of the early Kollmorgen scopes. Like yours, it doesn't have the MC-XXXX serial number on the tube but has the audible elevation and windage clicks and the eyepiece is 4X Double marked. When you stated there were less than 50 of these scope, were you referring to the early versions or the total number of ex-military scopes that have been documented to date by collectors/shooters?

Regards,
Michael

[cplnorton]

Wow that looks like a really nice one! What is the story on it?

On the fifty scopes total. That is what they say in the Garand Journal on the article on them. They say they think there are less than 50 of them out there. So I imagine that total includes both types of scopes.

[FlightRN]

Good Day,
The rifle is a restoration. The correct receiver came from the CMP, the cheek piece is K-Line marked, the rail is an original/unmarked that my Grand Uncle (USMC pistol team member) had in his junk box:eusa_dance:, and the scope & mount were purchased around 10 years ago from a board member. The cone flash hider is a Springfield M2 version. Its a fun rifle and one that I'll pass onto the kids or Marines in the family:icon_salut:.
Regards,
Michael

[cplnorton]

Hey I guess there are more than 50 out there. I talked to someone offline and he has recorded more than 50 serial numbers. So I went back and re-read the Garand Journal article and they even mention more. So yeah I have no clue. I thought I read in there there less than 50 known, but I must have been confusing that with something else. So yeah I have no clue how many there are.

[Emri]

Nice rifle Steve !!

I missed a documented USMC one several years ago by about an hour. I saw it on an auction site with a 10K buy it now price. Being the smart shopper that I am I decided to do some research before bidding since I wasn't intimately familiar with the M1 sniper rifles. Went back to the auction an hour later and it was GONE.

It was like the one you assembled with the same Kollmorgen scope and was from 1952. The rifle was purchased from USMC inventory at Quantico in 1968. Seller had all the papers with original purchasers information, rifle SN, etc.

So, I guess the scopes by themselves are pretty scarce and valuable ??

[cplnorton]

Wow I would love to find a documented one. Those are extremely rare. And honestly that was a good price.

One of the scopes by itself a couple weeks ago on Ebay brought $7100. Now that was probably a fluke. I think they generally bring around 3-4k, but two people must have wanted it bad, and not many turn up for sale. The MC1 Marine mount, the last 2 or 3 that have sold have averaged about $2-2500 for the mount and rings. And then you have the cost of the M1C rifle. So just the parts value alone of the parts is an easy about 8-9k alone and that is without a documented Marine rifle.

[goo]

have you compared 100 or 200 yard group size with and without the funnel flash suppressor?

[cplnorton]

have you compared 100 or 200 yard group size with and without the funnel flash suppressor?

No I've been tempted to though. One thing to note. Major Culver said they actually modified a grenade launcher into a flash hider for these. I do think there will be a upcoming article on this on the GCA journal with pics.

But here is an article written by the Major.

http://milpas.cc/rifles/ZFiles/Articles/Sniper/The%20M1C%20and%20M1D%20Variations%20of%20the%20Ga rand%20Rifle%20by%20Dick%20Culver.htm

[Bodyman]

What a great job. That really is a rifle or which you can be very proud.

I remember the first morning I woke up and recalled dreaming of an M82. I said to myself; "This is gonna cost me." Always on the search for a good deal, with patience back in the day I managed to find a nice setup fairly reasonably.

Bruce Canfield's books are always a curse as far as tempting you into the next arena of Garands (or anything).

http://www.fototime.com/%7BE914B89E-EBA2-4522-ACC1-D4136EDD377E%7D/sspictwm/640/exp=f&modt=42283.3272997685&ssdyn=1/MVC-002F.JPG

So, of course then I had to try to find a Stith-Kollmorgen ... the M1C is easy by comparison (I remember that Title X papered rifle coming for sale - wow. No, I didn't have the cash to pull the trigger but if I could have, ... wow).

First I found a loose MC1 ring set but could never find the proper scope to go with it. Then I found a full set on ebay one morning with a buy it now for I think 6 or 8 hundred bucks (!!). Bear in mind that this is quite a few years ago (but you know I am going to tell you that it is all still out there). I have no proof but I heard that the Marines used to use a couple of the different John Unertle scopes in addition to the Stith (the Hawk and Condor and such) so I found one for my lonely ring set.

http://www.fototime.com/%7BAB3518D8-6FEB-48EB-BDEA-674B9115E8EE%7D/sspictwm/640/exp=f&modt=42283.3215336458&ssdyn=1/MVC-017F.JPG

I have shot both. The Stith is an absolutely HUGE improvement over the M82 and the Hawk is even more so (it is a 6x).

I don't know if the flash hider that Dick Culver describes in his article has ever been seen out here in the world or even if many more were made. That would be one heck of a score to find sitting on a gun show table somewhere, ...

Congrats again on completing that - what a fantastic and very rewarding project.