What sort of handle

[S.B.]

was used on the end of a three piece Krag cleaning rod? Was if some separate issue piece?
Steve

[JimF]

I don't believe there was any handle of any sort. --Jim

[deadin]

Here's a set I've had for years. I'm sure it is for a Krag as the front three pieces fit perfectly into the butt trap.
As for the 4th piece (other than they all have about the same amount of "experience")...???
(The brass tip doesn't seem to unscrew, but I haven't wanted to put a set of vise-grips on it and try really hard to get it loose.:evil6:)

http://deadin.info/webpics/KragRod.jpg

[Dick Hosmer]

While a good idea, giving a better/more comfortable grip, it is definitely not "official", to the best of my knowledge.

I'm sure the brass tip would unscrew to reveal a perfectly normal rod section.

Perhaps it was made by an old civilian competitor, though, for range use, a one-piece rod could be carried, so????.

Thanks for sharing.

[butlersrangers]

I have never seen a brass fitting like that before for a Krag (three section) cleaning-rod. A gunsmith, machinist, or handyman could have easily made it to form a sort of 'handle'.

If it could fit in the Krag 'butt-trap', it might stop the rattling of the rod sections, when in place. (However, this would require one of the rod holes to be increased in diameter to accept the swelled end of a rod-section). More likely, this brass fitting was a 'pocket carried accessory'. (But, this would beg the question: "Why wasn't it made in a more useful handle form"?).

This could make a handy 3-section Field Rod for a Krag that has been shortened for Hunting. More likely, as Dick Hosmer suggests, the fourth section & attached knob was carried in a Shooting Box to combine with the three sections from the rifle butt-trap to make a more useful cleaning rod.

It is also possible, someone used Krag rod-sections and the 'brass head' to make a cleaning or loading rod for some other type of firearm (???). Krag rods were, at one time, just another "surplus, laying around & little used or valued item".

It is a neat accessory and an enigma, but IMHO, not 'G.I.' Thank you 'deadin' very much for sharing!

BTW - What is the diameter of the 'brass knob'?

[deadin]

What is the diameter of the 'brass knob'?

The major diameter is .383"

Dick was right. I made up a collet that I could grasp the knob without scarring it up and it just unscrewed to reveal a standard rod section.
However it will not fit in the butt trap as the guide holes require that the rod sections be put in threaded end first and aren't big enough for the swelled tips.

My only guess is that it could be a "poor mans" range or barracks rod that didn't take up as much room to store/carry as a one piece one...

Dean

[butlersrangers]

Thank you Dean for your sharing of photos and measurement. That is a interesting accessory. (Sorry. I was editing my post, while you were responding).

[S.B.]

Thanks for the replies and insight.
Steve

[deadin]

My M1898 only has one butt trap and it only has the 3 holes for the cleaning rod. No room for anything else.

[butlersrangers]

'deadin': On an 1898 Krag, the oil bottle fits in a groove below the two bottom rod sections. It has to be inserted into place, before the rod sections.

(p.s. - FWIW: diameter of my .45 caliber cleaning jag is .390". Your .383" diameter brass knob or 'button' rod accessory may have been made for .44 or .45 caliber).

Photos showing Krag rod and oiler storage:

3302533026

[deadin]

Well, that just goes to show how little I know about Krags! I never even noticed the other hole (oil bottle) in the butt trap.:icon_redface:
Yes, the rod button would fit there but only if I took it off of the rod section as the hole is only about 4" deep. But then I would still have 24-25 inches of rod (with a button) for 30 inches of barrel and would still have to clean from both ends.....:icon_wink:

Anyway, what I have learned from this is that I need an oiler (and muzzle cap?) to complete the butt trap contents..... (Looks like mine was made about midway in 1903. Serial # 431525)

[psteinmayer]

FWIW, just a helpful hint... Stuff a piece of paper towel or a couple cleaning patches under the trap to help keep the rod pieces from rattling around.

[S.B.]

FWIW, just a helpful hint... Stuff a piece of paper towel or a couple cleaning patches under the trap to help keep the rod pieces from rattling around.
Exactly, that's what I do in my other U.S. military rifles with butt traps. Just experiment till you find the correct number of parches in your rifle.
Steve

[Dick Hosmer]

Muzzle cap doesn't fit in the butt - that was for rods and oilers only.

Krag carbines also required the buddy cleaning system, being provided with only two sections.

Not widely known is the fact that the earliest (but by no means all) of the thin-wristed carbine stocks had but two holes, one above the other. This was quickly changed to the standard triangular drilling pattern - with one to be left empty. The two-hole stocks are extremely rare, and well worth checking for.

[deadin]

Muzzle cap doesn't fit in the butt - that was for rods and oilers only.


Thanks Dick! I thought it was starting to look a little crowded in there.
What should I expect to pay for an oiler? (and where should I look?)

[Dick Hosmer]

Oilers are not scarce/rare, or expensive, at all. They show up on Ebay, Gunbroker, etc., also, many of the parts suppliers (such as S&S) listed on www.trapdoorcollector.com also handle Krag parts.

Brass muzzle covers are another matter entirely. Used (1980s) to see them all the time for $10/15 or so - now they are a $150 item - one of the most spectacular price increases of which I am aware, and it was sudden, too. The spring-steel carbine sight protector is even worse ($200) but they were always somewhat scarce so the increase was nowhere near as pronounced.

[butlersrangers]

The Krag (butt trap) oiler is about a $15 to $25 item. The rifle muzzle cover/front sight protector seems to sell for about $65 to $85 on eBay.

[psteinmayer]

I paid $20 for my oiler at an antique arms show. I paid $80 for my muzzle cover on EBay.

[Dick Hosmer]

I paid $20 for my oiler at an antique arms show. I paid $80 for my muzzle cover on EBay.

I guess the muzzle covers must have come down - I have enough for my wants/needs, so have not kept really close tabs on the market. Oilers have never been a big-buck issue.

[butlersrangers]

A word of caution. - I have only seen the reproduction 3-section rods in person. (Numrich sells them). The threads and diameter are different than originals. I have noticed that the S&S Firearms Catalog lists reproduction oilers and muzzle-covers. So, there are 'copies', (potential Fakes), Out There.

(Photos - bottom rod-set and bottom rod are reproductions in the photos. Muzzle Cap and Oiler are original).

3304033041

[butlersrangers]

Re: deadin's brass rod accessory.

The more I look at the picture, the more I think Form is the Clue to Function. I don't think the brass knob on the Krag rod-section was a 'handle'. I think it was used as the 'Head' on an improvised loading-rod. Maybe for a muzzle-loading rifle or shotgun (Range-Rod). IMHO.

3304233043

[Dick Hosmer]

I sincerely disagree.

It makes perfect sense for use with a Krag, in that it (1) answers the length issue, and (2) would provide an immeasurably better grip for working a patch back and forth than just gripping a set of threads.

Now, what we do not know, devoid of context, is whether the owner/maker even had a Krag - he could have bought the rods as cheap "army surplus".

We'll NEVER know, but I tend toward the simpler solution, rather than thinking of all the other things that it could be if inverted, which would mean another clumsy grip, ill-suited to ramming.

Just my .02, YMMV (beginning to sound like my friend 5MF, whose book I appreciate more as time goes by)

[Fred]

I swear I've seen the exact same type of brass knob on a Krag cleaning rod section before years ago. I'm pretty sure it was at a gunshow.

[butlersrangers]

FWIW: I was just trying to think 'outside the box'. Like many once common and utilitarian surplus items, the Krag Rod could have been 're-purposed' - (Like, maybe a cleaning rod for a .45-70). I realize, we can't know for sure. However, if I wanted a 'handle' on my cleaning rod, I think I would make it a different shape, (unless there was a space requirement).