View Full Version : 1920 National Match 1903 Springfield
Here are some iPhone photos of a 1920 National Match Springfield that I took today outside near sunset. I'm working on techniques to get detailed photos with this camera, which is all that I have to take pictures with, with the exception of my iPad which doesn't download and transfer photos very well.
This rifle is one of the few that have survived in original condition and configuration. John Beard tells me that The 1920 National Match 1903's could only be purchased by Officers of the Armed Forces. John say's that those rifles that weren't purchased by military officers were, after the National Matches at Camp Perry were over, dismantled and such parts as could be were used in the assembly of the following years National Match rifles. This rifle has a swept back J5 bolt.
The rifle shows no use to my eye except for some very minor handling dings. Fortunately, it has never had a front sight cover put on and therefore has absolutely no scratches or damage to the finish of the front sight. Such sight covers weren't used on fine National Match rifles anyway by their prideful owners. The bolt feels extremely smooth in operation and the trigger release is perfect and crisp. The safety operates more smoothly than any other 1903 safety that I've ever experienced in my 41 years of messing with 1903 Springfield's. 100% of the asphaultum is still on the front sight and sleeve and the front sight set screw shows no signs that it has ever been removed. This rifle was brought into a gun store by somebody who was probably a relative of whoever had owned it for many years. The rifle appears to have been in a cabinet or dry closet for its entire life.
The bore is absolutely Mint in appearance and I'd bet that it would mike out to be such if I weren't dead set against injuring or marring the rifleling with a steel muzzle gauge. THAT ain't gonna happen while I own it.
I haven't fired this rifle yet, though I've had it for a couple of years or so. Isn't it a crying shame that this rifle isn't allowed to be used in the Camp Perry National Matches?
Anyway, I hope that you enjoy the pictures. I'll take some more tomorrow of the trigger guard and the floor plate and such to show how the rifle still has about 100% of its original finish.
These aren't in any particular order...
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Beautiful rifle!!! They are the best! And so is the scenery. Just where do you live?
Rick the Librarian
11-06-2015, 06:01
I've been an amateur photographer for nearly 40 years. If you use sunlight, the best time is very early in the morning or late in the afternoon. I still find "high overcast" days to be best, but your colors are beautiful.
Beautiful rifle!!! They are the best! And so is the scenery. Just where do you live?
The wife and I live out in Eastern Nebraska on our horse ranch Louis. Just Southwest of Omaha.
Looking to the West from our front patio...
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I've been an amateur photographer for nearly 40 years. If you use sunlight, the best time is very early in the morning or late in the afternoon. I still find "high overcast" days to be best, but your colors are beautiful.
I agree Rick. Early morning and late evening Are good times to use the camera. Overcast days certainly are easier to photograph on too!
Looking to the East after sunset from our house...
At the moment I took this photo, it was very dim outside and my eyes couldn't make out the details of much of anything. However the camera could gather much more light and so the photo appears like it was taken in daylight. Wish my eyes worked like that!
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You're lucky folks living there it's beautiful. I would love to wake up and see that. Also sitting out early evening. Beautiful.
I'm happy that you enjoy the photo's Louis. This place used to be a pig farm. They were penned up on the East slope. That's all pasture now. The place was built in 1905 as a farm house that overlooked 80 acres all around. My wife and I have a big ol orchard now to the south and the horse coral on the West side along with a vineyard that we started last year. The big pastures that Clear Creek flows through are all beyond the orchard to the South and beyond the horse corral to the East.
We've a bunch of big ol Peacocks running around the place too along with some hens that we get our eggs from. We only have 7 dogs now but have had as many as 12 at one time.
It's a fun place to be hidden away in from the populated areas to the East of us. All of our neighbors are pretty nice. Of course they live about a mile away on all sides, which means that for as far away as we can see in all directions, there isn't anyone around. That's pretty cool.
My favorite horse Travis, who's a Tennessee Walker.
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I think that these photos were downloaded with maximum pixels, so lets see how they turn up...
The house is 110 years old, but it's really sturdy and has withstood 110 years of tornados. Here's a picture of the front and some of the back along with a couple of others that turned out OK with the iPhone. I really ought to get a legitimate digital camera and see what I can do with it. I don't know Anything about such stuff but my wife does.
The Pennylvania Longrifle shown in the last photo with our horse Big Dog is an antique flintlock that was made in Lancaster, Pennsylvania around 1834. It was found in an out house or out building long ago in Old Mexico by an old man I knew and worked with over 30 years ago. He was called Trapper because he trapped for a living when he was younger. I never knew his real name. He was 60 years old back in 1984. Trapper just gave me the rifle one day. It has a .40 caliber bore and a barrel that's 47" long. The rifle has the name of Henry Leman of Lancaster Penn. on the top flat. It's a Flintlock. I'm told that it's likely one of Leman's very first rifles that he probably assembled himself around 1834 or 1835 in his tiny shop he had set up in the back of his fathers Brewry when he was around 24 years old. The rifle has some interesting features including several Saber or hatchet cuts in the barrel.
http://www.jouster.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=34976&stc=1
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That is just a beautiful setting a great place to live. Love the old house. I grew up in one my grandfather built after ww1 sometime, they have a lot of character. But you also have the property that is very relaxing. You and your wife are very fortunate. You have plenty of room to ride your horses around comfortably. Very nice photos I really enjoy looking at them.
Hey, Glad that you enjoy them Louis! As it is, being 80 pounds over weight, I don't ride the horses. I wouldn't subject any horse to too much weight. I'll loose at least 60 pounds and Then buy a new saddle for Travis, my favorite horse that I raised.
The place is a chore to keep up. If it weren't for my wife, the place would look like Boo Radley's house. LOLOL
Still, it takes me an hour to drive into town and back to get a cheeseburger at a fast food place. I mean, why bother going for fast food? Ain't nothing fast coming my way when I live out in the Boon Docks.
You're a true and honest man. Thank you for the photos. It made my day looking at your place.
Smokeeaterpilot
11-07-2015, 02:56
I just realized our rifles are 35 digits a part.
Cool! Please tell me about your rifle. Any photo's?
PeteDavis
11-07-2015, 04:47
That rifle is a true high water mark.
In a pinch I'd trust both dogs.
PD
Smokeeaterpilot
11-08-2015, 03:16
Cool! Please tell me about your rifle. Any photo's?
It's a 1920 NM but I didn't want to post pictures and take attention away from your post. Seemed tacky on my part.
Oh heck, don't you worry about that! Anybody can post and show anything of theirs on any of my posts. I for one would Really enjoy seeing and hearing about your rifle and anybody elses' rifles! I think that I might've seen yours if you've posted photo's of it before a couple of years back. I believe that yours might've been one of the two or maybe three that are still in original condition that I've seen. Not many of them around for sure. Please post photos of your rifle.
Fred, You are sending out some nice pics, I am sure most on this forum really enjoy them! Thank You for the excellent photos! Dave
Extremely nice photos!! Looks like you really don't need a camera your iPhone takes some great photos!!
Hey, Thanks guys!! Yes, iPhone cameras are fantastic inventions for anyone to have a digital camera readily available to use, aren't they! I'm happy that you find the photos interesting!
It's fun for me to see what I can get out of the camera. I've never been into photography before and so I know nothing about it. However I'm having fun now!
Here are FOUR links to Four other 1920 National Match rifles that I know of that have surfaced on the internet within the last few years. One of the links is to another 1920 N.M. 03 that was auctioned off not too long ago and bought by somebody who probably never even knew that they'd obtained a rare 1920 National Match 1903. I think that it sold for $1,150.00 and was just advertised as a 1903 Springfield service rifle. Hopefully, the person that bought that rifle will come across this thread and learn something about what they have if they haven't already found out about it before.
Here are the links to the only other 1920 National Match 1903's that I've been able to find out about. One of them is the rifle that Smokeeaterpilot obtained a few months ago. Wow! It's an excellent rifle! Another such rifle was added to the fantastic 1903 collection of Promo (Georg) over in Europe not long ago.
So, I now know about Five such rifles that are in private hands around the world! Five out of Three Thousand made. There must be others still out there so you guys keep your eyes open for them!
https://www.northeastshooters.com/vbulletin/threads/286242-Just-came-in!-1903-Springfield-1920-National-Match
http://www.milsurps.com/showthread.php?t=43094
http://www.rockislandauction.com/viewitem/aid/54/lid/3699
http://www.cowanauctions.com/auctions/item.aspx?ItemId=77766
I have a papered NM 1268602. I have a lot of info on the owner including a photo of him. The rifle was unfortunately sporterized but it was in terrific condition. The original stock was cut down, and scope mount holes were drilled on the receiver as well as peep hole rear sight mount holes, but done professionally. The rifle did go back to Springfield and was rebarreled with a 1936 star guage barrel maybe it was done at that time but just a wild guess. I had to replace the original WL3 bolt. It also had a reverse safety and a headless striker, which made sense as the owner was left handed and had a fairly large nose. I could never find a correct stock for it so I have a reproduction finger groove stock on it. I also mounted a correct rear peep sight. And a correct NM rear sight. It's still a beauty of a rifle. The barrel bore is like brand new.
Smokeeaterpilot
11-10-2015, 06:22
I know of 2 other 1919-1920 NM rifles currently in private hands now in addition to the ones you already mentioned. I'm sure more will surface in the coming years. Just have to keep an eye out. Look how often we see a NRA Sales rifle pop up now as opposed to 10-15 years ago.
There was another on gunbroker that was sitting for several months but yours was MUCH nicer.
Mine needs some small parts to correct since it was some WWII era replacement parts on it. Mainly the windage knob and elevation slide.
Thanks for sharing the pictures of yours, a true gem.
Rick the Librarian
11-10-2015, 06:55
I have 1919 NM #1092290.
33132
I have 1919 NM #1092290.
http://www.jouster.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=33132&stc=1
Now THAT is a rare rifle Rick! Does your rifle have a J5 bolt or a J6 bolt? Because mine has a J5, I thought that it might've been a left over from one of the earlier 1919 N.M. rifles that were disassembled after the 1919 Camp Perry National Matches.
Rick the Librarian
11-10-2015, 07:05
A j5.
33140
Rick, since you also own a 1915NM rifle with S/N 605.xxx, can you let me know which code the bolt of this rifle has, and if it has the distinctive polishing on top and bottom of the rear locking lug?
Fred, thanks for the comment towards my rifle. But looking at those pictures yours is even nicer than my rifle!
Rick the Librarian
11-11-2015, 08:33
The Serial number is 605,178 and the barrel is SA 5-15. The bolt is marked with an I7 on the safety lug.
Attached are some pictures - probably my most valuable M1903:
3314333144331453314633147
Rick the Librarian
11-11-2015, 08:34
A few more ...
3314833149331503315133152
Rick, since you also own a 1915NM rifle with S/N 605.xxx, can you let me know which code the bolt of this rifle has, and if it has the distinctive polishing on top and bottom of the rear locking lug?
Fred, thanks for the comment towards my rifle. But looking at those pictures yours is even nicer than my rifle!
Thanks George. Maybe just a tad in the finish on the metal here and there, but not by much. I think that my rifle must have been stored in somebody's home for 96 years from the time that it was possibly brought home from the 1920 National Matches at Camp Perry where it must have been purchased by a member of the Military. It's possible that you and I are the next in line owners of our two rifles after the original owners who bought them.
How do you like the extremely fine travel of your bolt within the receiver as you lift the handle and ease the bolt back? No doubt like mine, your rifle is a work of precision engineering and art.
I'll bet that the rear sight is also tight in its base and that your windage knob turns easily and quite smoothly on your rifle too!
Don't you just love how the serrated butt plate holds the rifle in place against your shoulder? And I'll also bet that the finely adjusted Travel and Release of the trigger on your rifle is absolutely perfect, as it is on my rifle.
I think that there wouldn't be a Penny's Difference in collector value between our two rifles. I mean, it isn't like there's a lot of them out there to choose between if somebody was looking for one to buy! A person is very lucky to even come across one of these rifles. There isn't any information of this type of National Match 1903 in the Flayderman's Price Guide because as far as I know, nobody but John Beard has done any research on them or was even aware of their existence. Almost no one has even known about the existence of a National Match Springfield 1903 made before the 1921 Camp Perry Matches. When it was decided to allow civilian shooters to buy and own a National Match 1903 for the very first time in 1921, people mistakenly started thinking that the 1921 N.M. rifles were the very first such rifles made from the ground up as Match rifles. John Beards research has shown that just isn't true. Flayderman's Price Guide should eventually include this type of National Match 1903 as well as the 1919 Springfields and Rock Islands and earlier types that were all designed and built as National Match 1903's from the ground up and I think that the range of prices to be given for them will surprise some collectors.
Those pictures of your rifle are making my mouth water Rick.
John Beard
11-11-2015, 09:33
Many years ago, I purchased a rifle at a gun show, S/N 603xxx (I don't have the last digits in front of me), and I noted that it had some peculiar characteristics, including a polished National Match style bolt. I thought when I bought it that a shooter had taken it to Camp Perry and had the on-site armorers from Springfield upgrade it. When I got home, I looked up the serial number in the SRS books and discovered that the rifle was surrounded by National Match shooting team rifles. So I got in touch with Frank Mallory at SRS and asked how much information was available on these pre-WWI NM shooting team rifles. We exchanged a few messages, I sent him a check, and received a large package of document copies from the National Archives covering the period from 1908-1916.
The information was extremely revealing. The first M1903 National Match rifles were issued in 1908. The rifles were selected from service-grade rifles by targeting. The 1909 NM rifles were also selected from service-grade rifles by targeting, but then touched up to correct a flaw observed in the 1908 rifles. The 1910 NM rifles were made from the ground-up as NM rifles, which has continued ever since. But it wasn't until 1921 that individuals were allowed to purchase NM rifles as authorized by recently-passed Congressional legislation. 1921 NM rifle sales were heavily promoted in the media, which created the mistaken impression that they were the first "true" NM rifles. Nothing could be further from the truth.
Because public sales of pre-1921 NM rifles were not allowed, earlier NM rifles are scarce. Circumstantial evidence, however, suggests that military officers were allowed to purchase 1919 and 1920 NM rifles. And coming out of WWI, the 1919 and 1920 NM rifles were popular and they're not so scarce. But the pre-WWI NM rifles are scarce as hen's teeth.
J.B.
Thank you for sharing that information with us John! I know that you've invested quite a bit of your time and money in your research! :icon_salut:
Dick Hosmer
11-11-2015, 11:05
Picking up on something Fred said, has anyone heard ANY chatter about another update to Flayderman? Perhaps the chain, dormant since #9 many years ago, was finally broken at Norm's passing.
I doubt that any of us would be pleased at the new figures, since there seems to have been a real drop in the market. As an example, based on recent auctions, some of the rare (and I mean really rare) trapdoors have dropped off a cliff.
Kind of like when the Stock Market goes down. Maybe that's the time to buy more.
But the pre-WWI NM rifles are scarce as hen's teeth.
J.B.
Dang John, now I'm wanting to find one of THOSE.
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