Air Corps 1903 rifle

[witsgarand]

Did anyone see the Air Corps 1903 on gunbroker? I have never heard of such a thing. I should stop fishing so much. Based on what I've seen on line, this could be the real deal. Still time to bid. Any opinions?

[John Beard]

The seller lists the rifle as a "1903 Springfield Sporter". I concur.

J.B.

[Dick Hosmer]

Uhhh - are we talking about 523122058? Sure looks like an Air Service (or at the very least an attempt to fake one) to me. Definitely NOT your normal 1903 sporter, or 1903 Sporting Rifle.

[Fred]

This will be interesting to watch...

<br><br>http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=523122058

[Dick Hosmer]

Serial range is correct. Patina/color/wear is certainly a believable match. Components at least look like the ASR pictures I've seen. The real clue, I think, is "missing magazine parts".

[John Beard]

Uhhh - are we talking about 523122058? Sure looks like an Air Service (or at the very least an attempt to fake one) to me. Definitely NOT your normal 1903 sporter, or 1903 Sporting Rifle.

Yes, my concurrence was addressed at 523122058. And I concur with your comment as qualified in parentheses.

J.B.

[Dick Hosmer]

Thanks, John. Interesting.

I searched for "Air Corps" and found nothing, then tried "1903 Sporter", which ultimately led me to that one. Seller makes no special claim, though his price expectation is clearly absurd unless he thought (hoped?) that was what it was, and was just being coy.

I'm not clear on what OP thought was "the real deal" either! One swell foop, I guess.

My expertise lies in trapdoors and Krags, I can be had on '03s. Don't know seller, wouldn't have wanted the rifle anyhow, but, like Fred, I at least thought it worth asking about.

[John Beard]

I cannot rule out the possibility that the rifle might be an authentic Air Service rifle. Certainly the serial number falls in the right range. And it appears to be fitted with an authentic Air Service band and rear sight. But the overall evidence is not convincing.

J.B.

[Fred]

It's pretty clean looking. Not any patina on the stock. No dust in any crevices. No dried grease on the bolt or anywhere. It looks almost too clean to have been a rifle that's been regarded and treated as just a Sporter by somebody for 98 years.

[witsgarand]

If this an original air service 1903, wouldn't it be the rarest of 1903 variants? What cartouches should it have????? What would be a realistic value.

[Fred]

Take a look at the latest edition of Flaydermans. I wouldn't regard it as the rarest variant however.

[Dick Hosmer]

If this an original air service 1903, wouldn't it be the rarest of 1903 variants? What cartouches should it have????? What would be a realistic value.


No, it would certainly not be the rarest 1903. With a production of 910 rifles, and little if any record of documented use, there have to be some around, even though they were apparently ordered to be converted into normal 1903s after the war, which should have taken no more than five minutes each by a trained armorer, in shop with the proper tools and parts at hand.

This item has begun to intrigue me, and I plan on having a lot more input. I will NOT be bidding on it - I do not collect 1903s, and, since this is no longer a "sleeper", and I'm now on a very tight fixed income, there will be no attempt by me to obtain it for trade purposes. Further input will be limited as to why I think it is real, or not real - and I have not yet made up my mind. My 1865-1915 SA collection includes a significant number of arms made in quantities of 1000 or less, so, while definitely NOT an '03 "expert", at all, am not unfamiliar with limited production Springfields.

Full disclosure right up front: I've never handled, or even seen, an Air Service Rifle, real or faked. My written information - right or wrong - comes solely from the works of Brophy and Canfield. I do not have Campbell's or Hatcher's books, so, I may well make some newbie mistakes as this progresses. If I do, please point them out to me. All future comments are "IMHO". Game on.

At the very minimum, I would ask that the seller provide pictures of the following areas:

(1) More angles of the front of the stock and handguard (but he has already shown the toe of the stock without sling swivel mortise - which is HUGE, and probably makes the stock correct all by itself.
(2) More angles of the rear sight.
(3) Barrel stamping
(4) Several views of magazine opening
(5) Stock cartouche(s)

[Fred]

Yea, what Dick said!

[Fred]

There was a run of Nine Sporter 1903's that were the last made at Springfield Armory and that went to the Justice Department (FBI) in 1928 or 1929. I know of a fellow who has Two of them that have been offered to me for $2,000.00 each. I think that any of That run must be pretty rare.

[Promo]

Why would someone list a M1903 Sporter which appears to be an AS rifle, but puts a reserve of $9,000 on it because some people told him how rare this rifle is, and still doesn't update the description? Well, because the description then is something binding, and by now he still can claim he only sold a Sporter.
Compare the pictures with original Air Service rifles. The front end has a much different angle. And someone very knowledgeable told me to look at the finish, what I did. The originals sold by James D. Julia, aswell as those in Springfield Armory collection have a blued finish - and both also have inspector markings. This rifle does not.

For the records: what I was able to read on the internet, a June 19, 1925 memorandum said that 139 rifles were converted to service rifle configuration. Subtracting this from the 910, there should be 771 rifles of those still around.

[Fred]

:icon_salut: Thanks For sharing that information Georg!

[Dick Hosmer]

IIRC, there are four AS rifles at SA, one [J.F.C.], one [W.E.S.], and two either unmarked or the data was not recorded - but there does not seem to be a strong (pun intended) pattern. As to the finish, I'm not qualified to say. As to the stock profile, I'd bet that the tips were hand-shaped against a sanding belt, leading to inevitable small differences.

FWIW, the GB rifle is less than 250 numbers from one of the ones at SA.

Had no idea his reserve is that high - don't think we have to worry about it selling too soon!

[Promo]

Sorry to correct you Dick, but you're not right. There were very clear drawings with exact radius dimensions, how the stock tip should look like. For security reasons only this specific part - see the attachement. And with a total of more than 900 guns, I'm pretty sure they were professionally made and not each one handcrafted.

[Dick Hosmer]

NO problem, whatsoever - you will recall I asked for such candor, right up front. That's how we learn. Thank you very much.

Assuming, since the profile in his photo does not match the drawing (edge too sharp) that it may not be correct, how do we account for the stock not having a sling swivel?

[Promo]

Well, take a M1903 stock, some walnut blanks and a good carpenter .. not that of a hard job, pictures are available, and dimension can be taken from any M1903 straight gripped stock.

[Dick Hosmer]

A possibility to be sure, but quite the gamble, given the target clientele - since that ruse would ultimately fall apart, somehow.

All the more reason to request better pictures of the wood, including all markings.

[John Beard]

NO problem, whatsoever - you will recall I asked for such candor, right up front. That's how we learn. Thank you very much.

Assuming, since the profile in his photo does not match the drawing (edge too sharp) that it may not be correct, how do we account for the stock not having a sling swivel?

The late Mike Kokolus was a master of reproducing Springfield gun stocks. I am aware that he made at least one reproduction Air Service stock and perhaps two more. Certainly he could have made lots more. (And I find no fault with that).

I have good photos of a real Air Service stock in my files. It's clear the Gunbroker rifle stock is a reproduction.

I have a lengthy article that gives the complete history of and describes the Air Service rifles in intricate detail. The article is very scholarly written and draws heavily on documents from the National Archives. The gunbroker rifle does not match the description.

And, finally, I can count on two fingers the number of known authentic Air Service rifles that reside in private collections. And neither one of those two are very original. One has a replacement barreled receiver and the other has a reproduction stock. I can find no evidence that the government ever officially sold or released any.

J.B.

[Dick Hosmer]

John, thank you so much for the above explanation. Wish you'd been more verbose in responses 2,6, or 8. Would have settled the matter - I look upon you as the last word for 1903s.

[Fred]

I do also.

[Rick the Librarian]

I stay away from AS M1903s like I do sniper rifles - too much chance of fakery.

[Fred]

I would personally rather find a really sharp looking pre WWI 03 than an Air Service rifle.

[Rick the Librarian]

I would personally rather find a really sharp looking pre WWI 03 than an Air Service rifle.

+1 !!

[John Beard]

I would personally rather find a really sharp looking pre WWI 03 than an Air Service rifle.

Fred,

Yo' mailbox is full. I have a message for you.

J.B.

[Fred]

Fred,

Yo' mailbox is full. I have a message for you.

J.B.

OK John, I've created more space.

[chuckindenver]

ahhhh.... NOPE..

[Kurt]

OK John, I've created more space.

Fred, I hear those safe spaces are the new, new thing....congrats.

Kurt

[John Beard]

Fred, I hear those safe spaces are the new, new thing....congrats.

Kurt

Thanks for the laugh!

Let us be careful not to hurt anyone's feelings! :hello:

J.B.

[Marine A5 Sniper Rifle]

Lots of fools in this world.

jt

[Fred]

:icon_scratch:I still don't get it...

[PhillipM]

:icon_scratch:I still don't get it...

A pun on current events.

https://lgbtq.missouri.edu/safespace/

[Fred]

Hmmm, OK.

[Dick Hosmer]

I still don't get it, and I'm fond of - and frequently use - puns!

This one must either be a real stretch, or, my disdain for things LGBTQ (or whatever) could be clouding my senses.

[Fred]

It went over my head Dick. I'm confused as to the reason behind it too.
Am I supposed to be a queer? Holy Sh!t. All this time my wife and I thought I was straight! :icon_e_sad:

[Dick Hosmer]

And now, having exposed our naivete, we will doubtless be subjected to an episode of "how to keep a turkey in suspense", until some more erudite soul takes pity on us.

[louis]

Well don't feel so bad you two cause I don't get it either.

[Fred]

Oh Dick, I looked around and couldn't find a reference to that serial number of 68 rifle you mentioned had surfaced. Is that something local to your area?

[Dick Hosmer]

I have not enquired as to his whereabouts - he apparently read the Trapdoor News piece, but has not posted anything about it, so far, so I'm just letting it lay. It is #36, and correct.

[Fred]

Damn, if he contacts you, the information can go into that list of the details of the known rifles that you typed up. Ya never know when one will show up or where.

[John Beard]

And now, having exposed our naivete, we will doubtless be subjected to an episode of "how to keep a turkey in suspense", until some more erudite soul takes pity on us.

A radical movement on college campuses across the nation is currently underway, with the University of Missouri at "ground zero", to restrict free speech. This is an outgrowth of alleged police brutality episodes that has led to the Black Lives Matter movement. Radical college students of color and their sympathizers are calling for creation of "safe spaces" on college campuses where anything that might be construed as racist, bigoted, homophobic, sexist, etc., may not be exhibited or spoken, lest someone be offended. Students at the University of Missouri, and their faculty sympathizers, became so hostile that they forced the College President and Chancellor to resign. Other students and faculty on campuses across the nation have led protests and marches in sympathy with the University of Missouri students and have, likewise, called for creation of "safe spaces" on their campuses.

So be careful what you say and where you say it, lest you be accosted and charged with violating a "safe space!"

J.B.

[Dick Hosmer]

Thanks, John!

Somehow, as a member of the OFC, I'm reminded of the last words of the Duke's dying uncle!

[Dick Hosmer]

Damn, if he contacts you, the information can go into that list of the details of the known rifles that you typed up. Ya never know when one will show up or where.

This part should be made a new thread in Trapdoor Rifles. I'll attend to it directly (or at least this evening).

[Fred]

A radical movement on college campuses across the nation is currently underway, with the University of Missouri at "ground zero", to restrict free speech. This is an outgrowth of alleged police brutality episodes that has led to the Black Lives Matter movement. Radical college students of color and their sympathizers are calling for creation of "safe spaces" on college campuses where anything that might be construed as racist, bigoted, homophobic, sexist, etc., may not be exhibited or spoken, lest someone be offended. Students at the University of Missouri, and their faculty sympathizers, became so hostile that they forced the College President and Chancellor to resign. Other students and faculty on campuses across the nation have led protests and marches in sympathy with the University of Missouri students and have, likewise, called for creation of "safe spaces" on their campuses.

So be careful what you say and where you say it, lest you be accosted and charged with violating a "safe space!"

J.B.

I recall how back in the 1960's the millions of young students in Red China marched and gathered together throughout their nation, screaming and waiving their little red Chairman Mau books in the air and in the faces of visiting westerners. They were going to change the world through Revolution. They burned western books and were horribly closed minded to reason and common sense. All of those students are old men and women now. Perhaps they feel foolish for the way they thought and behaved then.
With the madness in the world and our country all around us today, my wife and I feel thankful to be away from the insanity of the world, here on our little ranch up on our hill, overlooking the river valley below. It seems like Shangri-La. Even the nearby city of Omaha seems to be a level headed and clean place. I wonder how long it will remain so. Well, whatever happens, at least it's peaceful here.

[John Beard]

I recall how back in the 1960's the millions of young students in Red China marched and gathered together throughout their nation, screaming and waiving their little red Chairman Mau books in the air and in the faces of visiting westerners. They were going to change the world through Revolution. They burned western books and were horribly closed minded to reason and common sense. All of those students are old men and women now. Perhaps they feel foolish for the way they thought and behaved then.
With the madness in the world and our country all around us today, my wife and I feel thankful to be away from the insanity of the world, here on our little ranch up on our hill, overlooking the river valley below. It seems like Shangri-La. Even the nearby city of Omaha seems to be a level headed and clean place. I wonder how long it will remain so. Well, whatever happens, at least it's peaceful here.

Fred,

Consider yourself fortunate if you are retired or near retirement age. The wave of unrest and perhaps destruction that will sweep our nation will not leave your place untouched. I fear it may no longer be a matter of "if", but "when." The next election will have a direct bearing on the "when." The Black Lives Matter and associated Safe Spaces movements are but the seeds of something forthcoming that is much larger. The question remaining is when will those seeds germinate. Hopefully, they will remain mostly dormant for the foreseeable future and we can enjoy a pleasant and prosperous retirement.

J.B.

[Fred]

I retired when I was 54 some years back. So far it's all been just fine and dandy. I'd sure hate to be the one to disturb my wife's peaceful life up here. She has a temper that'd make a Freight Train want to take a Dirt Road rather than to deal with her. :icon_wink:

[Rick the Librarian]

Fred,

Consider yourself fortunate if you are retired or near retirement age. The wave of unrest and perhaps destruction that will sweep our nation will not leave your place untouched. I fear it may no longer be a matter of "if", but "when." The next election will have a direct bearing on the "when." The Black Lives Matter and associated Safe Spaces movements are but the seeds of something forthcoming that is much larger. The question remaining is when will those seeds germinate. Hopefully, they will remain mostly dormant for the foreseeable future and we can enjoy a pleasant and prosperous retirement.

J.B.

I retired at 56 almost 10 years ago and I think most of us Baby Boomers will make it through this life without too much difficulty. I hold out no such hope for my kids or grandkids; there will be changes and they will be interesting, I'm afraid.

[PhillipM]

Will me your ammo!

[Dick Hosmer]

I retired at 56 almost 10 years ago and I think most of us Baby Boomers will make it through this life without too much difficulty. I hold out no such hope for my kids or grandkids; there will be changes and they will be interesting, I'm afraid.

At 78, I hope to make it out OK, but like you, Rick, I fear for my kids and grand-kids.

[John Beard]

I retired at 56 almost 10 years ago and I think most of us Baby Boomers will make it through this life without too much difficulty. I hold out no such hope for my kids or grandkids; there will be changes and they will be interesting, I'm afraid.

Young people who are healthy, smart, and energetic will make it just fine. It's retirees living on Social Security and others living/dependent on government assistance who will be hurt first and foremost.

J.B.

[rebound]

I have a great fear that the coming changes for our grandkids will be more than just interesting if we don't start changing things back to normal starting now... Starting with P C etc.

[Rick the Librarian]

I wish I could share JB's optimism and I hope he's right. But I fear he will be wrong.

[rebound]

John has it half right, but the kids will still be saddled with 20 trillion by the time TPOTUS is done with us....

[Marine A5 Sniper Rifle]

My attorney is an old geezer as am I. He once told me that in the old days, cheating mates was the #1 cause of divorces around here (rural area), but that now the overwhelming cause of divorce is lack of income by the dominant spouse. He demands his money up front, whereas in the old days he had little problem getting paid, as no one wanted their credit damaged. He thinks people these days just accept bad credit as a way of life, and a huge number of his customers live on welfare.

I don't often disagree with JB, but on this issue I believe the youth of today will have a much more difficult time creating a lifestyle comparable to that which existed in the fifties and sixties, where even uneducated people could find good paying jobs, own a nice home with one new car and a old clunker for daily use. My dad was an uneducated welder working out of a union local who bought a 4-bedroom brick home in a nice neighborhood and put five kids through college. My younger brother didn't want to go to college, but he has been very successful in life.

Any economy depends on innovation and invention for economic growth, but there has been a national emphasis on increasing efficiency to generate capital for about thirty years now. If you don't believe me, try borrowing money for a capital project. The lenders know they can generate income faster by increasing efficiency of a known product line without the inherent risk of marketing a new product. The result has been devastating for our industrial complex, which has resulted in reduction of total employment figures. Who's to blame? Believe it or not, our educational system's use of continually improving computers is to blame. Couple that progress with our national decline in the willingness to take risks, and you have long term economic failure in a bottle.

jt

[louis]

Agreed by me also Jt. I really have been saying for awhile now that nobody wants to take risks. This country was made on risks some success some fail but that's life. Seems that now everyone just wants a guaranteed risk. They have risk managers that are probably just as bad as having lawyers.

[Rick the Librarian]

My attorney is an old geezer as am I. He once told me that in the old days, cheating mates was the #1 cause of divorces around here (rural area), but that now the overwhelming cause of divorce is lack of income by the dominant spouse. He demands his money up front, whereas in the old days he had little problem getting paid, as no one wanted their credit damaged. He thinks people these days just accept bad credit as a way of life, and a huge number of his customers live on welfare.

I don't often disagree with JB, but on this issue I believe the youth of today will have a much more difficult time creating a lifestyle comparable to that which existed in the fifties and sixties, where even uneducated people could find good paying jobs, own a nice home with one new car and a old clunker for daily use. My dad was an uneducated welder working out of a union local who bought a 4-bedroom brick home in a nice neighborhood and put five kids through college. My younger brother didn't want to go to college, but he has been very successful in life.

Any economy depends on innovation and invention for economic growth, but there has been a national emphasis on increasing efficiency to generate capital for about thirty years now. If you don't believe me, try borrowing money for a capital project. The lenders know they can generate income faster by increasing efficiency of a known product line without the inherent risk of marketing a new product. The result has been devastating for our industrial complex, which has resulted in reduction of total employment figures. Who's to blame? Believe it or not, our educational system's use of continually improving computers is to blame. Couple that progress with our national decline in the willingness to take risks, and you have long term economic failure in a bottle.

jt

Agree, as well, although I don't have quite the good memories from the past. I think we were just willing to get by with less. But we did enjoy a good life. This may come across as very sexist, but look at the vast number of moms that have to work outside the home; yes, I know many make that decision, but it many families it is a must.

[louis]

I agree with you also Rick. I'm 63 but I think we could have gotten by with less years ago. Not today. I believe that woman with families must work to help make ends meet.

[John Beard]

Seasons' Greetings!

Permit me to defend myself.

When I graduated from college in 1971 and moved to a big city for employment, I lived in an apartment next door to an elderly retired German couple. Oscar Stein and his wife had emigrated from Germany in the late 1920's, worked in the Detroit auto factories, and retired to Alabama to be near children. Mr. Stein, as I called him, was a wonderful man and I loved to sit and chat with him. What caused him to leave Germany, as he explained, was hyper-inflation. Being in his 20's, he worked as a laborer. He got paid each day in German Marks and, he explained, he had to spend them on his way home because, next day, they wouldn't be worth anything. He added that a piece of gold jewelry or a gold or silver coin was priceless and could be bartered for anything. I found his story quite remarkable and remembered it thenceforth. His story was reinforced recently when I looked up hyper-inflation in Wikipedia. A graph appears showing German inflation in the 1920's and the depiction is utterly astounding.

Our National Debt is at a tipping point beyond which our future will be irrevocably set. We will be following post-WWI Germany's path. The result will be economic calamity. Anything denominated in dollars (bank accounts, retirement accounts, pensions, Social Security, welfare assistance, government employee paychecks, debts, mortgages, credit card balances) will become worthless. When stability eventually emerges perhaps several years later, young people who hustle will have an opportunity and time to rebuild and, being young, will not generally have lost much. Those whose subsistence depends on dollar-denominated items as listed (the elderly, the poor and disabled on welfare, civil servants, schoolteachers) will be hurt very badly. But unlike Mr. Stein's day, a gold or silver coin will not be negotiable currency. Gold and silver are now commodities like soybeans, corn, and cotton. Wal-Mart, Kroger, Target, McDonald's, and Wendy's will not be accepting gold and silver. So one should be careful when planning for the future.

And economic calamity will, most assuredly, be accompanied by political calamity. But that's a different subject, perhaps, for another day.

Happy Holidays!

J.B.

[Dick Hosmer]

Permit me to wish you and yours a very Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year.

"Seasons' Greetings" and "Happy Holidays", being so blatantly PC, have become offensive.

What happened in Germany in the 1920s is fairly common knowledge - but knowledge which our "leaders" (for many of whom I did not vote) seem to be totally ignoring, or perhaps they figure they have "enough" salted away?

Now that you have spoiled, un-intentially I'm sure (and it is not my intent to 'shoot the messenger' - you didn't cause the problem) every senior's day - what DO you see as a way for oldsters to survive?

Or, should we simply espouse the Indian way, and just walk off into the woods on a frosty night?

This discussion should probably be moved to the political forum.

[rebound]

I agree with you also Rick. I'm 63 but I think we could have gotten by with less years ago. Not today. I believe that woman with families must work to help make ends meet.

Back in the old days,,, the 60s that is.. When I bought my first home they wouldn't count the wife's income, Loan only based the on the one income.. Now a days it's a two income family. You call that progress ???
As an after thought I have about 300,000 in old 20s German marks giving to me by an uncle years back..

[John Beard]

Permit me to wish you and yours a very Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year.

"Seasons' Greetings" and "Happy Holidays", being so blatantly PC, have become offensive.

"Seasons' Greetings" apply this time of year regardless of religious (or non-religious) affiliation. 'Tis simply a form of holiday greeting and should not be construed as politically correct or offensive.

"Happy Holidays!" on the other hand, is a politically-correct form of expression. I use it when I know not what the recipient's religious persuasion is. I have friends, for example, who may be Jewish, I respect their religious beliefs, and I sincerely wish not to offend them. If I know they're Jewish, I gladly wish them a "Happy Hanukkah!"

I gladly accept your Merry Christmas and Happy New Year wishes! And to my known Christian friends such as you, I unabashedly say....

"MERRY CHRISTMAS!!!!"

J.B.

[John Beard]

What happened in Germany in the 1920s is fairly common knowledge - but knowledge which our "leaders" (for many of whom I did not vote) seem to be totally ignoring, or perhaps they figure they have "enough" salted away?

Now that you have spoiled, un-intentially I'm sure (and it is not my intent to 'shoot the messenger' - you didn't cause the problem) every senior's day - what DO you see as a way for oldsters to survive?

Or, should we simply espouse the Indian way, and just walk off into the woods on a frosty night?

This discussion should probably be moved to the political forum.

Survival in a hyper-inflation environment will be different for different people. There is no "one size fits all" answer. But several principles apply.

Back in the 1980's, Wall Street suffered a huge one or two-day crash. A newspaper reporter approached Sam Walton and solicited his reaction to having lost several billion dollars in one or two days. He replied something to the effect of, "Two days ago, I owned 60% (or whatever it was) of Wal-Mart. Today, I still own 60% of Wal-Mart." And he turned and walked away. His viewpoint was that he was not denominating his wealth in dollars, but percentage of Wal-Mart. So owning stock in good solid companies is a good form of security that is also readily negotiable.

One's assets should also not be stored in a medium which the government knows you own. If you own real estate, for example, the government can tax it and ultimately seize it for taxes. Ask any Southerner who is familiar with post-war Reconstruction. Ask any landowner who lived through the Bolshevik Revolution and Stalin. A dying government will desperately grasp for revenue wherever it can find it.

One should also be prepared for lapses in essential services, such as electricity, food, municipal water. New York City, for example, has a population of about 8 million. And I could probably weigh on a cotton scale the amount of food that's grown daily in the city limits. Can you imagine the line of tractor-trailer trucks on the Interstate highways that haul enough food into New York City for 24 million meals each day? One should not be deceived into thinking that a 2-3% shortage will be insignificant. Once the public becomes aware of a shortage in any item, they immediately begin hoarding and that item vanishes overnight. Have you tried to buy any .22 caliber ammunition for the past several years? And yet production has been at record levels. Do you remember the Johnny Carson toilet paper shortage? Ooooo!

And, finally, companies such as Wal-Mart, Target, Kroger, etc., are NOT going to follow our government over the cliff and into the abyss. And neither will they train their clerks to accept gold and silver (or soybeans and cotton). They, along with private employers, will switch over to an electronic currency and continue business as usual. And the government, the dollar they're married to, and those who depend on those dollars will slip over the cliff and into the abyss.

I do not endorse the Indian way.

Permit me to close by stating that neither you nor I will likely see these conditions. They're off in the future. But our young children may see them.

Merry Christmas!

J.B.

[Fast996]

"Gold and silver are now commodities like soybeans, corn, and cotton. Wal-Mart, Kroger, Target, McDonald's, and Wendy's will not be accepting gold and silver. So one should be careful when planning for the future."

That's right pay $5000 for any rare rifle that sits on your wall or in your safe.It pays no interest but goes up as long as the credit is easy.Currency inflation was the problem of the Weimar we have a credit inflation easy money built thru easy credit(stock prices) .Not currency inflation of bank notes. Gold maybe in little demand now but if we head down the road of corrupt South America inflation and devaluations of 50 per cent I'll gladly hold the yellow metal.

[John Beard]

Gold has two issues that one must acknowledge when dealing with it:

(1) A very small amount has a very large value. When using it for barter, it can only be used for big-ticket items. And when using it for barter, the person receiving it will likely make change in worthless inflationary currency, not like metal.
(2) Trading (i.e., buying and selling) gold incurs a 25% commission. So you will only get back in equivalent value 75 cents for each dollar invested.

Gold, however, has two virtues. A very large valuation occupies a very small space and, thereby, stores easily. And the government will not likely know you own some.

J.B.

p.s.,

The Depression-era Roosevelt Administration outlawed the ownership of gold and forced owners to sell their stockpiles to the government at a fixed price that turned out to be a huge loss!!!

[Promo]

Gold and silver are now commodities like soybeans, corn, and cotton. Wal-Mart, Kroger, Target, McDonald's, and Wendy's will not be accepting gold and silver. So one should be careful when planning for the future.
Please let me disagree.. I always say that lead is the most valueable thing on earth. Add a bit of powder to it and case it in some brass, and you yourself can set the currency rate :icon_wink:

[Rick the Librarian]

Permit me to close by stating that neither you nor I will likely see these conditions. They're off in the future. But our young children may see them.



J.B.

That was my point in stating earlier, that most of us will probably live through the rest of our lives, pretty much as we have so far. But that things will be different for our children and grandchildren.

I have studied history virtually all of my life and have noted the so-called "watershed" elections. 1932 and 1860 were two of them; 2008 was another. Progressivism/liberalism or whatever you call it, was rescued from the grave. You also have nearly 45-50% who pay NO income tax (or very little) and are basically into government for what they can get from it. Government is not concerned with getting people off welfare or food stamps - indeed they boast when the number of people receiving it increases.

There are signs that 2016 will just continue the trend. Will I give up?? NO!!

[Kragrifle]

And now that I have decided to slit my wrists...........