View Full Version : Who made this one?
Hecklerusp45
11-29-2015, 10:24
Found a M1917 type rifle at local gun store. It is marked ERA. It is chambered in .303. Who made this one?
meterman
11-29-2015, 12:36
Eddystone made that one.
Hecklerusp45
11-29-2015, 07:13
Might be a P14. Pics??
Sorry, was not able to get pics. It did have the volley sight and brit proof marks, so I thought it was brit made, but I guess we made it for the brits.
I don't know if the Brits made any of them. They were never proof marked until released for surplus. Brit military was not subject to Brit proof law!
It IS an Eddystone made (so basically a Remington owned factory) Enfield Pattern 1914 rifle, no doubt.
Tom in N.J.
12-02-2015, 04:34
The 'ERA' P 14s were made at the Eddystone, PA plant of the Remington Arms of Delaware Company.
As part of the British proofing requirement at the time they were sold off as surplus, the P-14's were stamped NOT ENGLISH MAKE along the left side of the receiver. I have a Winchester which escaped the Weedon Repair that removed the volley sights. Has the original Winchester stamped stock and is RAF marked
JB White
01-06-2016, 07:27
I don't know if the Brits made any of them. They were never proof marked until released for surplus. Brit military was not subject to Brit proof law!
Vickers produced an initial batch in the UK (in 303) but wasn't set up to meet demands. Hence the contracted manufacture in the USA.
Vickers produced an initial batch in the UK (in 303) but wasn't set up to meet demands. Hence the contracted manufacture in the USA.
The P14 was simply adapted from the experimental P13 in cal. 276 which had been going though generally successful field trials when WWI broke out. It's likely that the P13, with it's modern high velocity round, would have replaced the Lee Enfield designed rifles, as was the plan, had the war not broken out. With the war on it, didn't make sense to ramp up for a new round but rather it seemed sensible to adapt the P13 platform to 303, and create the P14. That was accomplished quick enough but then there was no factory time available in Britain to produce the required tooling and then to make the guns in mass quantity. For those reasons production was successfully farmed out to U.S. companies, which turned out to be most fortuitous when the U.S. entered the war horribly short on rifles in April 1917. The U.S. War Dept. put out and emergency call for proposals for rifle designs. Along with other relatively minor modifications, the good folks at Remington slapped an 06' barrel on a P14. With the P14 contacts nearing completion it only made sense to modify the existing P14 equipment and quickly crank out M1917's.
mannparks
01-07-2016, 09:24
33831Photos would be nice, we all would like to see.
This is a ERA
338293383033828
33831Photos would be nice, we all would like to see.
This is a ERA
338293383033828
Are there RAF markings in the wood, or on the disc, on your P14 mannparks? The reason I ask is because most P14's I've seen have had the "Weedon" repair done to them which eliminated the barrage sights. However my RAF marked P14 retains the barrage sights. I'm just curious if RAF inventory might not have undergone the Weedon repair between the wars.
mannparks
01-09-2016, 01:40
KCW, short answer, there can be as many as eight different types of markings on the P 14 .the Rondel,
or the marking just on the right side in front of the brass marker on the stock is mfg. all in a circle (I.e.) IR,IW, and this gun I.E.
Under the pistol grip would be proof marks,and a weedon mark six pointed star over a letter The letter designates the contract firm ,my rifle has no weedon mark because it did not go through their rebuild process.
Ownership and acceptance marks on the receiver consists of which countries ,mine is a Great Britain ,there is also Australia ,Canada ,New Zealand, South Africa.
The weedon repair service started in 1939 by the British government.
Just a sidenote have you ever watched the show foyles war it's on PBS ,takes place during World War II on the south coast of Britain .one of the episodes has a wonderful sniper P 14 Mark I.
Charles
John Sukey
01-10-2016, 01:05
Barrage sights? I believe you meant "volley sights"
The original idea of "spray and pray' saturating an area with "to whom it may concern":icon_lol:
IditarodJoe
01-10-2016, 10:21
Just a sidenote have you ever watched the show foyles war it's on PBS ,takes place during World War II on the south coast of Britain .one of the episodes has a wonderful sniper P 14 Mark I.
Now you have me intrigued. Was there actually such a thing as a Pattern 14 Mark I rifle and, if so, was there ever a Mark II? Also, it seems that the Brits went back and forth on the "Pattern" nomenclature versus "Number" (as in Number 4 Mk 2). Does anyone here know if there was any logic behind this or was it just bureaucratic inconsistency?
mannparks
01-11-2016, 09:29
Long and short of it is ,two mkI 2nd mkI had a *. 1916 bolt and bbl change.
MkII rifles were aft 1939 went through the weedon repair.
A suggestion would be to buy Charles. Stratton book vol. 4 ,way more info.
Charles
Now you have me intrigued. Was there actually such a thing as a Pattern 14 Mark I rifle and, if so, was there ever a Mark II? Also, it seems that the Brits went back and forth on the "Pattern" nomenclature versus "Number" (as in Number 4 Mk 2). Does anyone here know if there was any logic behind this or was it just bureaucratic inconsistency?
Here's an excellent article I found by Marc Gorelick. He uses multiple source references.
http://www.vgca.net/education/TheUKPattern13_14USM1917Historyver09_2014-09-17.pdf
mannparks
01-12-2016, 06:00
Interesting article where did you find that ? I would like to obtain a hard copy
I found it doing multiple searches trying to find info on a Canadian LL winchester 1917.
The link looks to be in PDF format, which should be printable. If not maybe be try to contact the Va. gun collectors association.
It is very comprehensive, I don't have a printer, or I would try it myself. Let us know if you can print it and I will forward to someone to print for me.
Brad
mannparks
01-12-2016, 08:25
Yeah OK thanks very much I think that it is printable ,I'm just cheap and I'm trying to save Ink. I'm just wondering were Mr. Mark gorlic
found this information ,it looks like it's a government pamphlet
I'll try to contact Mr. Gorlich through the website of the Virginia gun owners .
Charles
Scroll down to part 6. Numerous books and Government manuals listed as sources. So it's not a government pamphlet.
I notice C.S Ferris book isn't listed,probably printed after this. Also supposed to be excellent. I've got one on order.
IditarodJoe
01-12-2016, 09:07
The link looks to be in PDF format, which should be printable.
It is in .pdf format. Keep in mind that you can just hit the Download button on your browser and download an electronic copy to save for your files.
It is in .pdf format. Keep in mind that you can just hit the Download button on your browser and download an electronic copy to save for your files.
That worked fine, thanks!
I see you're not in Maine anymore. I grew up there and still go for summers, but hate the taxes.
The early 1917's were stamped with the initials also, not many tho before they went to the full maker name. I have only seen one and I have looked at a lot of '17's. It was a Win. stamped WRA. Guy wanted 500 when they were going for 2-250. I passed!
This is not correct. The early Winchester M1917s were stamped with "US" over "W" over the serial number. The early Remington rifles were stamped as follows (I've once saved the attached picture). I however can't speak of the Eddystone, but since they were a Remington plant I'd assume the same.
Its been a long time since I saw it but still think it was WRA. I cannot make out what your pic. reads! MODEL OF 1917, REMINGTON? The very early 1917's were stamped the same as the Brit. P-14s were.
Where is the serial number?
This is M1917 from Winchester, S/N #1 from the SA collection:
http://ww2.rediscov.com/spring/full/3192C-JPG633536160322592988.jpg
The one I've attached picture of reads "US Model of 1917" over "Remington" over "4", where #4 is the serial.
You're wrong when saying the early 1917s were stamped as the British P.14 rifles.
Well, guess I am wrong, I can't argue with pictures. The one I saw must have only had a W on it, been 15-20 years, my memory is not what it used to be! The Win.'s were marked with one letter, the Remington's with full name? How were the Eddystone marked?
It might have been a 303 P14 you saw.
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