Question about originality of LN SA M1903...NOT about safety to fire!

[artyldr01]

Good Evening,

I will start by saying this is not a question about the safety to fire a low number M1903, rather the originality or potential story behind my particular rifle.

It is SA SN: 743865 with RIA barrel 2-19 and what appears to be a SA ("U" in cutoff well) produced stock sent to RIA for rebuilds ("C" Inspector Cartouche).

I initially posted it in the following thread where you can see more photos:

http://www.jouster.com/forums/showthread.php?55781-New-to-me-low-SN-M1903-w-out-cartouche-w-sling-info-amp-SRS-check-please

As I research more, I am curious as to the originality or whether this is a semi-unique rifle in that it is clearly a rebuild, low serial number that retains a straight handle bolt (I8 marked and a single peen under the handle). I understand most LN rifles were either pulled from service and sent to allied nations or kept in war reserve (or destroyed) after rebuild, but wouldn't they have replaced the straight bolt with a swept bolt?

I am still learning much but this rifle is absolutely in beautiful condition, though the bore has some pitting. Am I just luck to get gently handled war reserve rifle?

Any thoughts on the "3K" marking in front of the magazine well is appreciated as well.

[artyldr01]

A few more...

[Rick the Librarian]

The Army didn't consider a "straight" bolt a problem and didn't replace them unless worn or damaged.

[Jim in Salt Lake]

And these are 90 year old rifles that have gone through multiple hands with plenty of opportunities for parts swapping. Makes for interesting puzzles sometimes. Pretty rifle, I want that butt plate. See, more opportunity to swap parts.

[Smokeeaterpilot]

Nice rifle!

I wouldn't get too caught up in how "original" a rifle is. As Jim in Salt Lake pointed out. These rifles have changed hands many time, even more so after its service life. So it's next to impossible to evaluate a rifle on how original it is, 90 or 100 years after its production date.

Tap into one of the experts to determine what parts are correct and what would be later replacements. John Beard is a incredible informative source and having the ability to dissect photographs with surgical precision and making recommendations on what is needed to have correct parts and if its worth the effort or leave to it be.

Congratulations. These rifles are addictive!

[PhillipM]

LN rifles were either pulled from service

That is incorrect, they stayed in service till they needed work.

[artyldr01]

Thank you very much for the insight. I definitely love it. I know it isn't a "shooter" per-se but I rarely shoot them anyway and this is a great early example of what is rapidly becoming one of my favorite rifles...well one of...I do love my ShtLE / SMLE Enfields. In comparison to my Model of 1917 it is definitely prettier but the 1917 is a much more robust battle rifle. Next to the M1 it feels like a featherweight!

I know my M1917 never went overseas from my research on the early Winchesters (mine is SN: 64999) being made prior to the specifications being standardized making many of their parts not interchangeable, but is there any way to deduce whether this potentially went over seas by virtue of the serial number range for example? I know the M1917 was the predominant rifle in France but M1903s also served in lesser numbers. This one didn't draw a hit on SRS so I know nothing is definitive.

[Roadkingtrax]

Is your 1903 blued?

[artyldr01]

It appears to be a very nice, deep Parkerizing more than a bluing. There is also some shade variation between the receiver and where the barrel mate. the finish is in great shape.

[Fred]

I really like it. It looks like an honest rifle that's just as it was while being last carried and used by some Soldier, Sailor or Marine.

[artyldr01]

I really like it. It looks like an honest rifle that's just as it was while being last carried and used by some Soldier, Sailor or Marine.

EXACTLY what I look for, not a pristine museum piece, a weapon that has been used.

[PhillipM]

I think there is 0% finish remaining. I could be wrong.
http://forums.thecmp.org/showthread.php?t=80121

[artyldr01]

Philip, I'm not tracking, 0%? Do you mean 0% original? I agree, it was rebuilt in at least 1919 and per the threads you sent I understand my rifle to originally have been blued.

[John Beard]

Seasons' Greetings!

Since my response has been solicited, I will speculate that you have a Navy rifle. As you are aware, your rifle has been overhauled, refinished, and re-assembled from mixed parts. The finish on your rifle appears to be Navy late WWII vintage. Your rifle was probably transferred to the Navy from the Army during WWII. Your rifle is in splendid condition and I recommend that you leave it as is.

Hope this helps. Happy Holidays!

J.B.

[butlersrangers]

'artyldr01' - You should do one thing to your nice 1903 Springfield: reverse the rear barrel-band, so the "u" is on the right hand side of the rifle.

[artyldr01]

Great info, Thank you! I will flip the band and try to give some TLC to the sling. She is a prized artifact for my collection (nonfiring). I love her.

[PhillipM]

Sorry, on my phone the rifle looked like the finish was worn off.

[PhillipM]

Great info, Thank you! I will flip the band and try to give some TLC to the sling. She is a prized artifact for my collection (nonfiring). I love her.

The band is marked with the "U" because it has a slight taper. Since it is on backwards it may be tight so try sliding the upper hand guard and band forward together.

[artyldr01]

Thanks for the pointer! It truly is a beautiful rifle. Now hopefully Brody's book is under the tree!

[Punch the Clown]

Correct me if I'm wrong but the trigger guard screws look like they were staked. Beautiful rifle.

[Johnny P]

Rear band is on backwards.

[artyldr01]

It does look like that might be the case but both screws still unscrew. I was curious as to their purpose as well and didn't even consider that, thanks for the observation!

[artyldr01]

I fixed the rear band. :) When I took it apart I took a few more photos. It appears to still have plenty of cosmoline here and there, which I intend to leave in place. The only markings I've seen so far are on the barrel a C123 on the bottom of the barrel about midbore, then near the receiver a small, poorly struck, ordnance bomb with a S? and then where that mates with the receiver a similar ordnance bomb with perhaps a 43 or 13? Looks more like a 4. The magazine spring has an E I presume to mean Eddystone. I appreciate the insight and education. I truly enjoy trying to piece together the story of these great veterans.

[Johnny P]

The U is for up. The U had been used for years before the Model 1903 rifle, and continued until a stamped lower band replaced the machined band.

http://i68.tinypic.com/2d7fx5f.jpg

[artyldr01]

Got her corrected!

[artyldr01]

Thank you all very much. Does anyone have any thoughts on what the "L" in front of the Serif "P" proof and the 3K in front of the magazine well mean? I have scoured all the forums, digging in books, can't find a thing.