Rod Bayonet barrel band

[Fred]

Here's a photo of the Rod Bayonet 1903 rear Barrel Band that I bought recently. These bands are solid at the bottom instead of being split like the later (post 1906) barrel bands.
This type of hardware is tough to find. I don't have a use for it, but knowing how seldom they are found, I decided to get it from the ebay seller who was selling it. The seller didn't answer my three inquiries as to whether the fuzzy photo's of it showed whether or not it was indeed solid at the bottom. After three days of deliberation, I finally just went ahead and purchased it because it certainly did look like it was. For the money spent, I did alright. This type of band is rare to find. It's the second such band that I've seen available within a few years. The first one I obtained from a fellow collector was made available to me for trade. Although it wasn't cheap, I was VERY Happy to have obtained it and consider myself fortunate that the fellow who I got it from was kind enough to take trade for it. He's the salt of the earth! A Prince among men! Thanks again John Beard! :icon_salut: :1948:
http://www.jouster.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=33836&stc=1

[Fred]

Here is an interesting butt plate for an 03 that I believe is an early transition type that has the enlarged trap for the oiler, but that still has the matching numbers stamped into the underside of the door and plate. This butt plate came from the same seller that had the Rod Bayonet rear barrel band.

I'd be very interested in hearing from John Beard or Rick the Librarian or anyone else who might have some insight as to the type of butt plate that this is.

http://www.jouster.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=33837&stc=1

http://www.jouster.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=33839&stc=1

[Fred]

Here's what the solid band on my rifle looks like.

http://www.jouster.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=33840&stc=1

[John Beard]

Seasons' Greetings!

I assume the buttplate in your picture is for an M1903 rifle. An explanation for the numbers is simple.

When originally manufactured, the cap was custom-fitted to the buttplate. The cap and buttplate were then numbered, disassembled, and hardened separately. Curiously, the buttplate and cap received different heat treatments. After hardening, the numbers enabled the assembler to find and assemble the cap back to its fitted buttplate.

In about 1906, a manufacturing change was made to harden the buttplate with the cap installed. The change eliminated any need for numbering the cap and buttplate.

Hope this helps. Happy New Year!

J.B.

p.s.,

To complete your collection, you now need a milled buttplate with the forging die number inside the cap!

[Fred]

Here's what the Front barrel band looks like. Sure would like to find one of these too. Unlike the Rear band, it's actually split at the bottom so that it can be passed over the bayonet locking mechanism during dismounting.

http://www.jouster.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=33841&stc=1

[Fred]

Seasons' Greetings!

I assume the buttplate in your picture is for an M1903 rifle. An explanation for the numbers is simple.

When originally manufactured, the cap was custom-fitted to the buttplate. The cap and buttplate were then numbered, disassembled, and hardened separately. Curiously, the buttplate and cap received different heat treatments. After hardening, the numbers enabled the assembler to find and assemble the cap back to its fitted buttplate.

In about 1906, a manufacturing change was made to harden the buttplate with the cap installed. The change eliminated any need for numbering the cap and buttplate.

Hope this helps. Happy New Year!

J.B.

p.s.,

To complete your collection, you now need a milled buttplate with the forging die number inside the cap!

That's pretty Neat John. Well then, isn't it interesting that the two pieces that I obtained had both been off of a pre 1907 assembled rifle! I hope that such an early rifle hasn't been sold off for parts.
My old 1903 Mark I had some interesting numbers and maybe a letter (J)? stamped on the inside of the butt trap that were not very deep and quite smaller in size than the ones on my butt plate. All in one line too. I sort of even thought that the numbers might've been in raised relief on the trap.
Yep, I noticed the hardening color difference on the trap and plate. Of course that hardening process was also done on the U.S. Krag. Now I know when that ended. Thanks John! I don't even have a need for these parts. I just couldn't watch them slip away though.

[RCS]

This Rock Island s/n 64145 with a RIA 3-07 dated barrel also has the number on the butt plate door33872338733387433875

[John Beard]

RCS,

Seasons' Greetings!

As you have noted, RIA generally followed SA's lead in manufacturing processes and procedures. Thanks for sharing!

Happy New Year!

J.B.

[Fred]

Neat rifle RCS! Yes, your fantastic rifle is an example of how that type plate with the larger trap door and stamped numbers was used at least into 1907! Thanks for posting those pictures!

[Fred]

Here is an interesting butt plate for an 03 that I believe is an early transition type that has the enlarged trap for the oiler, but that still has the matching numbers stamped into the underside of the door and plate. This butt plate came from the same seller that had the Rod Bayonet rear barrel band.

I'd be very interested in hearing from John Beard or Rick the Librarian or anyone else who might have some insight as to the type of butt plate that this is.

http://www.jouster.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=33837&stc=1

http://www.jouster.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=33839&stc=1

OK, with reference to information within the Excellent book, "Springfield Model 1903 Service Rrifle Production And Alteration 1905-1910"' by John Beard and Nick Ferris, I've learned that this type butt plate originated on the Rod Bayonet 1903 Springfield. Although the altered Krag butt plates with the smaller trap door were also utilized after grinding them down to size at the toe, this buttplate is the first type of plate made specifically and initially for the Rod Bayonet 1903.
So... I've now mounted it on my RB 03 in place of the Krag butt plate that I'd altered specifically for the rifle earlier.
The Replacement butt plate fits perfectly. I'm quite lucky to have located and obtained it!

[Fred]

http://www.jouster.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=33983&stc=1

[GWS]

Interesting post that got me wondering about my old shooter. It's a mixmaster of parts: 1256099 receiver, SA 8-35 barrel and in rod bayonet stock. I always thought the trapdoor opening in it was smaller than normal and that the buttplate in general was a bit smaller than others I've seen, so I got it out today and took some photos of it. Sure enough, I think it's about the same as the one you have Fred, at least has numbers stamped in both the butt plate and door. I do not have any idea what the numbers stamped into the buttstock are. Any thoughts?3397833979339803398133982

[Fred]

By the lack of the three wear rubs to the bluing on the underside of the trap from Krag cleaning rods, I believe that your butt plate, which appears to me to have the smaller trap door and opening, was one of the many Krag butt plates that had been ground shorter at the toe and refinished at Springfield Armory to be used on a Rod Bayonet 1903. Pretty Neat!

I believe that John Beard said that the numbers were there to allow the Armory workers to keep track of the doors and plates in their reassembly that were originally fitted together as a pair before they were heat treated in a different manner, which accounts for why the finishes on each should appear differently if they haven't been refinished later.