Pre-War M1903 National Match rifles

[Rick the Librarian]

Although there is a fair amount of discussion about National Match M1903s, most of it is mainly about the rifles in the 1928-39 range, there is relatively little on those made before World War I. I had a chance to read an unpublished article written by our own John Beard about this subject.

For one thing, as a rule pre-WWI National Match rifles were not sold but "loaned" to participants. As a result, there are few of them in private hands in original condition (John estimates a dozen or less. As I recall, there is one or two held by members of this forum, including me).

Pre-WWI NM rifles are "missing" a number of the features which are seen on later National Match rifles; these include a) star gauge stamp on the muzzle crown; b) the serial number etched on the bolt; c) the serial number stamped on the bottom of the stock. The early NM does have a polished bolt and polished "raceways" and follower rib, among other features.

One "specific" I found out was that, for the 1915 and 1916 National Matches, about 2200 National Match rifles were manufactured, all in serial number order. The order was from about 603,111 to about 605,347. The first half, according to John, were issued for the 1915 National Match, and the rest, during the 1916 National Matches. My rifle (605178) was apparently one of the 1916 rifles.

What brought up all this to me was a gentleman on the Facebook M1903 forum reported obtaining M1903 #603758, one of the 1915 rifles. While it had a couple of the NM features, some parts like the stock had obviously been replaced. It has a 1914 barrel, which John said may have been original. Another obviously non-original feature was the extended "Air Service" magazine (The original discussion started as to whether it was an Air Service M1903, which of course, it was not)

John and I both agreed that since nearly all of these rifles were turned in after use, and the U.S. was mere months away from participation in World War I, a large number of these rifles were probably "reintroduced" to use as service rifles, and, except for a few example, more or less disappeared.

Here are some pictures of the gentleman's rifle from Facebook:

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[Rick the Librarian]

For comparison, here is my 1916 National Match M1903. The rifle was obtained by the person who sold it to me from an elderly Black widow in the Washington DC-area whom he was moving out of her apartment. I would have been curious to know if her husband was in the service - possibly one of the pre-WWII "colored" regiments. I did not recognize it as a National Match rifle but John Beard did!!

http://www.fototime.com/E4D4648C27042E7/standard.jpg

http://www.fototime.com/E8206694CCDC38F/standard.jpg

http://www.fototime.com/17631AB5B5D4733/standard.jpg

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http://www.fototime.com/8F00D7C8C80B838/standard.jpg

http://www.fototime.com/E7F33D48A884379/standard.jpg

[John Beard]

One mistake made by Clark Campbell in his excellent books on the M1903 rifle, and perpetuated by Brophy in his book, was that M1903 rifles used in the National Matches prior to 1921 were nothing more than "selected" service rifles. This mis-perception resulted from all the 1921 publicity and promotion surrounding the introduction of National Match rifles for sale to the shooting public for the first time. Documents found in the Chief of Ordnance files at the National Archives firmly refute this perception.

As Rick the Librarian pointed out, the pre-1921 National Match rifles were not available for sale. But they were National Match rifles in the tradition of the post-1921 rifles. And because few pre-WWI National Match rifles leaked out, the rifles are very scarce today.

J.B.

[Fred]

John, would my 1920 National Match fall into the category of the early NM rifles, even though it's of Post War manufacture?

[John Beard]

John, would my 1920 National Match fall into the category of the early NM rifles, even though it's of Post War manufacture?

Your rifle, like the pre-WWI rifles, were not offered for sale to the public. But 1919 and 1920 NM rifles are, surprisingly, not very scarce. My speculation is that the 1919 and 1920 NM rifles were bought by military officers who were eligible to buy them. The Great War had cultivated a strong and widespread respect and interest in the Springfield rifle and post-war military officers who had served overseas wasted no time in scarfing them up!

The 1919 and 1920 NM rifles are much like the pre-WWI rifles, except that the receivers were no longer casehardened and most remaining parts were parkerized and painted black instead of being richly blued.

My 2c worth.

J.B.

p.s.,

I have a well-used 1919 NM rifle in my collection that came with a National Match Special stock and USMC sights. I have little doubt that the rifle was bought by a USMC officer and target shooter.

[cplnorton]

John, as you know I'm a sucker for anything Marine. That 1919 sounds like a very nice rifle!

And this is great info on the pre war NM rifles. It's a very interesting topic that I have to admit I'm very intrigued by. Thanks for posting Rick and John!

On a side note, I know I've seen a lot of people argue online that the Marines couldn't buy their rifle, but as you said, the Marines could. I've searched the Marine Manual for almost the whole life of the 1903, and it's in there everytime.

http://i1282.photobucket.com/albums/a535/cplnorton11/12509353_10153862368019886_3275508179533613920_n_z ps3rmtvcrp.jpg

[Fred]

I wonder who the Officer was who bought my rifle. He didn't use it very much if any. He probably bought it in 1920 at Camp Perry. Possibly after using it there. I can't say for certain now, but I belive that the rifle arrived with a USMC sling that might've dated from the 1920's. I've since sold the sling. The rifle must've been stored away somewhere where dust couldn't get to it. Why would it have had a USMC 1907 sling put on it later if it wasn't being used much? I figure that the original owners daughter might've inherited it and she might've had only a daughter to hand it down to. I don't think anyone had fired it or even handled it much if any during that time. Heck, I've never fired it in the time it's been in the house.

http://www.jouster.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=34042&stc=1

http://www.jouster.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=34043&stc=1

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[cplnorton]

I still love that Barstow Case. :)

[Fred]

You might've already read about how I got it then, but just in case you haven't, I bought that back in 1981 at the Marine Corps Supply Depot in Barstow from over the counter for $5.00 after noticing it hanging up on the wall directly behind the Supply Sergeant with a for sale tag on it. I asked him how much for it and he told me $5.00.
I was there with another Lt. from Ft. Irwin, picking up something from the Marines there to take back to our unit in the 1/73 Armor.
While I was in doing business with the Marine Sgt, the 1st Lt. that had come into town with me, an ex cop, stuck his head in the door and told me he was getting a ride back to the Fort with somebody else so to not bother looking for him. He told me he'd see me later back in the Motor Pool where he was going to be busy. I found him in the Motor Pool when I drove my jeep back, detailing identification numbers onto a freshly desert tan painted jeep that he told me he'd stolen from out front of the Marine Corp Supply Company where it'd been parked. That guy had some balls! He'd driven it through the desert, over Coyote Lake, and into the back gate of the Motor Pool. He obtained that jeep for his company use out and around the desert during our war excersizes.
Anyway, I guess he pulled one over on the Marines that day. I got my rifle case, the Army got another jeep and the USMC got my $5.00.

[Rick the Librarian]

Like John says, 1919 and 1920 NM rifles weren't very rare. I found this 1919 NM online - a gentleman was using it as a "shooter" and was willing to trade another rifle I had plus some cash. Although I hope I'm wrong, I don't think it has the "painted" finish John mentions, although it appears to almost have a "varnishy" finish on the receiver. I haven't gathered the intestinal fortitude to try to remove it.

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[Rick the Librarian]

A couple of more:

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[cplnorton]

You know I have a note in a 1919 Marine document talking about the rifle team. And they mention in 1919, they received all new rifles for the team.

I sort of imagine that most of the team rifles before the war, went to the war effort and were used, and they just all started from scratch when they came back. That might be why there are a lot of them in that 1919/20 timeframe. But that is just a guess on my part.

By the way, I have never been a 1903 guy. I've always been a Garand guy. But that is sort of changing. lol You guys are getting me hooked to these NM 1903's. They are a beautiful rifle. You guys have to stop because it's getting addicting. :)

[Fred]

I'm wanting to buy or trade for a WWII Garand myself.

[Rick the Librarian]

My late brother left me some money and I got one of the "British" M1s - 329895. Wanted one for a long time.

[John Beard]

You know I have a note in a 1919 Marine document talking about the rifle team. And they mention in 1919, they received all new rifles for the team.

I sort of imagine that most of the team rifles before the war, went to the war effort and were used, and they just all started from scratch when they came back. That might be why there are a lot of them in that 1919/20 timeframe. But that is just a guess on my part.

By the way, I have never been a 1903 guy. I've always been a Garand guy. But that is sort of changing. lol You guys are getting me hooked to these NM 1903's. They are a beautiful rifle. You guys have to stop because it's getting addicting. :)

You might be surprised to learned that participants in the National Matches of 1919 reported that the USMC shooting team showed up with their pre-WWI National Match rifles in hand. The rifles had been safely stored away for the duration of the war.

J.B.

[cplnorton]

Huh, the one I have it talks about they played it safe in 1919 and broke in all new rifles. It even mentions that by the time they get to the National Matches the barrels were just getting broke in with about 500 to 600 rounds through them.

Maybe mine is just wrong then. I have seen some contradictions looking at some of these documents. I just took that comment as they got new rifles.

[Mike D]

A couple of more:

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Rick - Has the relief for the mag cut-off been opened up on that rifle? Looks like it in the photo. Maybe the previous owner had big fingers!

Those NM '03's are sweet!

Mike

[Rick the Librarian]

I admit I never noticed that before ...I don't know!

[Promo]

This thread has the potential to become "03-porn"! Wow, what a lot of beautiful rifles and pictures!

I also own one which John had identified as a pre WWI NM rifle, my rifle is in the 577.xxx range if I remember it correctly. And just recently I was successful in buying a 1919 RIA NM rifle - life is good!

[Rick the Librarian]

It would be nice to get a RIA NM but I think my "expensive rifle buying days" may be behind me.

[Fred]

Don't forget that the 1919 and 1920 National Match rifles that weren't sold to military officers were dismantled and their NM parts were used for the next years NM rifles.
That's why there aren't a lot of them left.

[Marine A5 Sniper Rifle]

.... the pre-1921 National Match rifles were not available for sale. But they were National Match rifles in the tradition of the post-1921 rifles....J.B.


Like I have stated previously stated, I know little about the NM's. Considering the statement above, how do you explain the excerpt below?

jt

[John Beard]

Like I have stated previously stated, I know little about the NM's. Considering the statement above, how do you explain the excerpt below?

jt

The pre-WWI NM rifles were not available for sale through the DCM. But persons with the right political connections, however, could acquire one who, in most cases, would be qualified military shooting team members. John Hession was a famous member of a military shooting team who had lots of the right connections!

J.B.

[Marine A5 Sniper Rifle]

The pre-WWI NM rifles were not available for sale through the DCM. But persons with the right political connections, however, could acquire one who, in most cases, would be qualified military shooting team members. John Hession was a famous member of a military shooting team who had lots of the right connections!

J.B.

I was jerking your chain a bit, John. I agree with you that USMC team shooters could have pretty much what they wanted, especially if Capt Fay was involved, and he was. The Corps is infamous for never giving anything back.

jt

[Paul-In-Oregon]

You might've already read about how I got it then, but just in case you haven't, I bought that back in 1981 at the Marine Corps Supply Depot in Barstow from over the counter for $5.00 after noticing it hanging up on the wall directly behind the Supply Sergeant with a for sale tag on it. I asked him how much for it and he told me $5.00.
I was there with another Lt. from Ft. Irwin, picking up something from the Marines there to take back to our unit in the 1/73 Armor.
While I was in doing business with the Marine Sgt, the 1st Lt. that had come into town with me, an ex cop, stuck his head in the door and told me he was getting a ride back to the Fort with somebody else so to not bother looking for him. He told me he'd see me later back in the Motor Pool where he was going to be busy. I found him in the Motor Pool when I drove my jeep back, detailing identification numbers onto a freshly desert tan painted jeep that he told me he'd stolen from out front of the Marine Corp Supply Company where it'd been parked. That guy had some balls! He'd driven it through the desert, over Coyote Lake, and into the back gate of the Motor Pool. He obtained that jeep for his company use out and around the desert during our war excersizes.
Anyway, I guess he pulled one over on the Marines that day. I got my rifle case, the Army got another jeep and the USMC got my $5.00.

Hey Fred, I guess you guys made a small dent in making up for all the Jeeps & Garand's those Gyrenes "appropriated" from the Army during WW2 !! My uncle was one of the culprits . . . :-)

It might take a few thousand more times to get even !

I was a swabby. Those guys have gotten to us too a thousand times over the years too. God Bless them.

We're all on the same team.

Best regards,

Paul
Paul-In-Oregon
Klamath Falls, Oregon

[Paul-In-Oregon]

BTW, I just rejoined the forum tonite after several 7 years of absence. I was pretty regular from 2004 - 2009. Happy to be back. Got a lot of catch up to do. Very sorry to hear of those that have passed since I was last here, and very grateful for those that have joined since !!

Best to all,
Paul

[Rick the Librarian]

Glad to have you back - welcome!

[Fred]

Hi Paul. Yea, I never thought of it like that. But I guess that's right. Lol. I'll bet they looked everywhere in and around Barstow for that jeep. I guess nobody thought about looking on the Army post.

[Paul-In-Oregon]

Glad to have you back - welcome!

Good to hear from you Rick. Still north of me in Washington ?

Looks like you've still got my favorite afghan !! :icon_salut:

Best regards,
Paul

[Rick the Librarian]

Good to hear from you Rick. Still north of me in Washington ?

Looks like you've still got my favorite afghan !! :icon_salut:

Best regards,
Paul

Yep, moved a little ways, but still in the same general area.

RtL

[Paul-In-Oregon]

Hi Paul. Yea, I never thought of it like that. But I guess that's right. Lol. I'll bet they looked everywhere in and around Barstow for that jeep. I guess nobody thought about looking on the Army post.

Fred, a lot of late night deals spread equipment around over the years. So where it wound up doesn't always conform to the text books, right ?? Ha/.

Paul

[Doug Douglass]

Thanks Rick and John great thread on 03 NM's. I still have two, #1089025 a mint 1919 NM, (I traded a water heater for it years ago), and the one I shoot #1196714 a 1921 NM with a final NM barrel dated 1927. Nice to know how the 1919 may have been aquired after the matches. Mine was dusty and dirty when I got it 20 years ago and during disassembly and careful cleaning sawdust fell out of the barrel channel.

[Rick the Librarian]

Do you have some pictures, Doug?