Garand NM Gas Cylinders

[StockDoc]

Is there anything special about these Gas Cylinders that warrant there high price. Were they hand finished?

[Johnny P]

From what I have read the rear ring was reamed out to prevent contact with the barrel.

[StockDoc]

From what I have read the rear ring was reamed out to prevent contact with the barrel.

I've heard that, and the rear lug was clearance to avoid contact with the front handguard. That was all I could find. But the seem to be selling for $300 and NOS ones are going for $120-200

[Orlando]

I've heard that, and the rear lug was clearance to avoid contact with the front handguard. That was all I could find. But the seem to be selling for $300 and NOS ones are going for $120-200

Barrel ring is enlarged and on some the lug was beveled not to contact the hand guard
They are expensive becuae of supply and demand.
I have several originals , you can easily modify a cylinder to NM specs yourself

[StockDoc]

Barrel ring is enlarged and on some the lug was beveled not to contact the hand guard
They are expensive becuae of supply and demand.
I have several originals , you can easily modify a cylinder to NM specs yourself

Thanks for the info

[musketshooter]

The NRA pamphlet on accurizing the M1 shows how to remodel the gas cyl into a national match type. If you buy one at some exorbitant price, you may be buying a bubba job sold as a Springfield original. Properly done, you will not be able to tell the difference.

[Ted Brown]

The M1NM gas cylinder 1005-649-9269 was produced in 1962. New in the can cylinders do not have the rear tab narrowed. That was done when installed. The rear ring is larger than standard, .6440-.0002". Some armorers feel that it is necessary to insure there is contact at the bottom of the rear ring with the barrel. I haven't found that there was any difference in accuracy when done to this spec. The NM gas cylinder is the same as standard in all other areas. They are hard to find and therefor cost more. Standard gas cylinders can be modified to the NM specs with little trouble.

[StockDoc]

then they could be easily faked.

Thanks for the replies

[Orlando]

then they could be easily faked.

Thanks for the replies

If you had a NM stamp they could
http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f197/Garandlover/misc/Picture671_zps8999edec.jpg (http://s47.photobucket.com/user/Garandlover/media/misc/Picture671_zps8999edec.jpg.html)


Originally they also had a DOD Ink stamp but are usually worn off
http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f197/Garandlover/misc/Picture670_zps728e5d35.jpg (http://s47.photobucket.com/user/Garandlover/media/misc/Picture670_zps728e5d35.jpg.html)

[StockDoc]

I always thought that the "NM" was done with a single stamp. But it looks as though many were don with separate letter stamps. Some that I have seen had varying space between the letters and some one or both the letters are canted

[JimF]

......Some armorers feel that it is necessary to insure there is contact at the bottom of the rear ring with the barrel. I haven't found that there was any difference in accuracy when done to this spec. . . . . .

Way back when, I accurized my "once-in-a-lifetime" DCM M1 according to a Navy armorer who DID mandate contact with the barrel at six o'clock.

Before I complied with this spec., I fired for accuracy with the cylinder "as issued" then again after the "bearing at six o'clock" spec. of the Navy.

There WAS a small difference (improved) in accuracy . . . but accurizing an issue M1 is an "accumulated" effort utilizing MANY small tolerance-tightening proceedures throughout the rifle.

Probably the most important aspect of accurizing is the very tight fit of the barreled-action in the stock! --Jim

[StockDoc]

. Some armorers feel that it is necessary to insure there is contact at the bottom of the rear ring with the barrel. I haven't found that there was any difference in accuracy when done to this spec. .

So they are not reamed but relived. Are the splines any different so as to get a tighter fit on the barrel?

[Orlando]

Splines are not different. A NM gas cylinder was built from a standard gas cylinder, no difference besides the modifications

[StockDoc]

[QUOTE=Orlando;445135]Splines are not different. A NM gas cylinder was built from a standard gas cylinder, no difference besides the modifications[/QUOTE


Thanks

[2111]

If you had a NM stamp they could
http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f197/Garandlover/misc/Picture671_zps8999edec.jpg (http://s47.photobucket.com/user/Garandlover/media/misc/Picture671_zps8999edec.jpg.html)


Originally they also had a DOD Ink stamp but are usually worn off
http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f197/Garandlover/misc/Picture670_zps728e5d35.jpg (http://s47.photobucket.com/user/Garandlover/media/misc/Picture670_zps728e5d35.jpg.html)

I am not to sure about " Originally they also had a DOD Ink stamp but are usually worn off" ' My thought is that if the NM gas cylinder was manufactured at SA and installed during NM build at SA then the Gas Cylinder would not have a DAS on the bayonet lug. If the gas Cylinder was a contracted part it would be stamped at acceptance. I doubt even all of the contracted gas cylinders would be stamped, maybe 1 out of 100 or something like that. I have no proof of this, just speculation on my part.

[Ted Brown]

None of the NM gas cylinders I've taken out of the can had a DAS stamp. I think this was probably added after the completed rifle was inspected.

[Major Tom]

Splines are not different. A NM gas cylinder was built from a standard gas cylinder, no difference besides the modifications

I assume if you peened the splines it would be OK? Just another mod to tighten it up?

[Roadkingtrax]

Perhaps as an in-process visual verification of something having been done and confirmed? Unless someone has pulled NOS NM gas cylinders and saw it already.

I have a 1962 NM rifle, must have been shot once and put away. Joe should remember seeing this one.

http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd281/ttraxler/3_M_NM_TYII/IMG_0036_zpsuemxh8pm.jpg (http://s223.photobucket.com/user/ttraxler/media/3_M_NM_TYII/IMG_0036_zpsuemxh8pm.jpg.html)

http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd281/ttraxler/3_M_NM_TYII/IMG_0065_zpsdlui37ns.jpg (http://s223.photobucket.com/user/ttraxler/media/3_M_NM_TYII/IMG_0065_zpsdlui37ns.jpg.html)

[2111]

That's one beautiful rifle and a nice photo Tim. One reason I felt it was a contracted Gas Cylinder is that SA more than likely ran out of new Gas Cylinders before the 1960's. I don't see them using a DAS stamp for anything other than acceptance, but again, I'm just speculating on this. Now that it has my curiosity I will have to look into it.

[Bill E]

Yes, beautiful rifle. Have you shot it? Thanks for posting.

[Roadkingtrax]

Yes, beautiful rifle. Have you shot it? Thanks for posting.

No yet, but it's also new to the stable. I have a couple other projects distracting me from shooting more.

This is the only ink stamp I had seen in person, on a gas cylinder. Interesting enough, I wonder if it is the same ink they used to mark the stock channels and trigger groups?

I really think it's an in-process thing. We may never know...

[2111]

I ran the question regarding the DAS stamp by Bob Seijas and this is his thought:
"I've seen a few marked in white (or pale yellow) paint, but don't know the particulars or time period. I agree, it is unlikely that they are SA originals. They are square (vs. round) so are final acceptance marks and so more than likely contractor parts."
When Bob says "it is unlikely that they are SA originals", I think he is implying that they may be contracted gas cylinders used by SA during original builds of NM rifles or during rebuilds of earlier NM rifles, whichever applies. As Bob has said in the past, " A logical speculation without documentation, so really high grade guesswork."

[Steven Martin]

I have a verified NM M1 with a verification letter from CMP. It was sold in '62 I think to a friend of the guy I bought it from (estate sale). I always wondered about the gas cylinder because it has no marks on it at all: no NM, no DAS no nothing.

[StockDoc]

From what I have read, if the rifle has not been upgraded or rebuilt, the Gas Cylinder will not be marked. Correct me if I am wrong.

[StockDoc]

Also, I noticed that gas cylinders were mile/filed to provide clearance between the gas cylinder and the front hand guard. Did all the teams do this or did some relive the handguard. Seem to me it would have been easier to shorten the handguard.

[Orlando]

I have a verified NM M1 with a verification letter from CMP. It was sold in '62 I think to a friend of the guy I bought it from (estate sale). I always wondered about the gas cylinder because it has no marks on it at all: no NM, no DAS no nothing.


I got to thinking I dont beleive the early Type I NM had NM marked parts. I think they may have just been rifles assembled with careful assembly and sorting of best parts.
Remeber though just becuase you have the letter stating it was sold as a NM rifle you do not know what parts have been swapped since it left CMP's hands

[Orlando]

Also, I noticed that gas cylinders were mile/filed to provide clearance between the gas cylinder and the front hand guard. Did all the teams do this or did some relive the handguard. Seem to me it would have been easier to shorten the handguard.

Not all NM cylinder had the tab modified.

[Cosine26]

FWIW
In the1958 DCM Parts list there were no NM gas cylinders listed
In the 1 July 1962 DCM Price list there are two entries:
NM cylinder 1000-649-9269-B021.....$5.96
Std cylinder 1005-653-5449-B021.....$3.85
By 1967 the prices had risen to :
NM..$7.18
STD..$4.54

From the Springfield Armory NM training course. Dated 1 December 1960, under:
General Requirements for rifle , U.S. .30,M1 National Match:
9. Gas cylinder shall fit tightly on the barrel . There shall be no rotational motion
12. Gas cylinder splined hole and rear ring shall meet the requirements of Alignment gage (sic)D7319207
There was evidently some different requirement for the NM gas cylinder other than the service gas cylinder.
There were never any NM Op Rods advertised.

[2111]

National Match rifles built at SA between 1953 and 1957 ( Type 1's) had no NM markings other than on the barrel between the rings of the gas cylinder. Those rifles built at SA in late 1958 and early 1959 for the 1959 National Matches were the first to have the NM marked gas cylinder. Also for 1959 the Standard Inspection Procedure (ORD-SIP-200) that " governed construction of rifles for the 1959 matches was modified as of 15 Dec. 1958 to include " On all rifles the letters NM shall be stamped on the Gas Cylinders, rear sight bases and rear sight windage knob assemblies...Apertures shall be stamped NM595 and front sights shall be stamped NM062.....". It is because of these specially constructed or NM parts that some collectors consider the NM rifles built for 1958 and 1959 to be an "Intermediate Type" between the as-Issued Type 1 and the NM rifles built for 1960 and latter Matches which have glass bedded stocks.
Most of what I have written above is from the Article "The Type 2 National Match, Part 1" written by Bob Seijas for the Fall 2003 GCA Journal.

The "tab modification" of the gas cylinder was not done by Springfield Armory during original build or the rebuild of an earlier NM rifle. This was a user/ military match armorer, modification and found on many former military match rifles.