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I am trying to duplicate the rounds used to assassinate JFK including the "magic" bullet. The original rounds used by Oswald were:
manufactured by the Western Cartridge Co., at East Alton ILL. This type of cartridge was loaded with a full metal jacketed, military type of bullet weighing 160-161 grs,
Back in those days that was quite a bit of information. But there was much more that was not revealed. For example, the "full metal jacketed, military type of bullet," was also a steel cored tough SOB of .265-.268 diameter that today would be classified as "armor piercing." Could that that clarify how a bullet could pierce a neck, pass through a car seat and break a bone in another human...
Back to reloading... I have pulled the .263-264 SMP bullets from some Norma 6.5 Carcano cases plus I have some, resized, once fired Norma brass. Using RCBS 6.5X52 dies I have tried reloading with the steel cored military bullets and there is a problem. The ogives of the bullets are very different and the "modern" RCBS dies simply do not work to seat (and crimp) the larger diameter bullet.
Thoughts and suggestions please.
Major Tom
02-16-2016, 05:09
Hmmmm, what are you up to Red? 8-/
Seat the bullet, them remove the seating stem and crimp. WAG, might work.
Seat the bullet, them remove the seating stem and crimp. WAG, might work.
I'll try that. I am also going to call RCBS and see if they have any ideas.
You saying you're trying to seat a .268" bullet in a .264" case mouth? Ya'll need a bigger expander. Might be something you can make if you have a lathe.
just about any hunting bullet will easily pass through something as small as a human neck, and a car seat isnt going to add any resistance.
I know for a fact that WWII M2AP .30-06 will punch a hole in 1/2" A500 steel at 150 yds. That's why i don't shoot steel anymore at the club.
PhillipM
02-16-2016, 12:06
Western Cartridge Company wasn't making any commercial bullets with steel cores.
barretcreek
02-16-2016, 09:14
Just checked my 1955 Gun Digest. Western doesn't list a 6.5 Carcano and they sure weren't gonna crank out .268 bullets for something they didn't load. I'll check my later GD for a list closer to '63. Allegedly a bullet from the President's body fell out of the wound onto the gurney at Parkland Hospital and was recovered. Uh huh. This is from a round which is ballistically identical to the cartridge which W.D.M. Bell used to make one shot kills on bull elephants, shooting through their skulls into their brains. So the gubmint wants me to believe the bullet only went partway through a human body? Don't know everything about the assassination but I know that's b.s.
Oswald probably had Italian mil-surp ammo.
psteinmayer
02-17-2016, 04:36
The interesting thing about that bullet was that it was pristine. Another point added to the mystery of what REALLY happened!
Matt Anthony
02-17-2016, 06:05
Unfortunately you will not be able in any shape or form duplicate the round that allegedly was used. The entire investigation was false. Better yet, the Warren Commision locked the entire file for 75 years. We have another 24 years until the gov't unlocks it. Even then their findings will be suspect. Look at how they are treating the Scalia death. Time is a factor.....in 24 years no one now who was alive in 1963 will even care as they will be eating dirt sandwiches along with Kennedy.
Matt
Have to agree with Matt on this. Whole thing smells funny.
I think Oswald used surplus Italian ammo. If so the rounds have a very thick cupro nickel jacket with a lead core. The 6.5 caliber 160 gr. RNFMJ is a very well designed bullet for penetration and is well known for that. Anytime a long thin heavy bullet is used in a caliber it has a tendency to penetrate. Another example is the 7mm with a 175 gr. bullet. That's why both of these calibers were used in Africa to harvest elephants. For 160 gr. FMJ bullets to do the damage they did and to penetrate as much as they did is not surprising at all.
http://www.jouster.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=34362&stc=1The warren commission report contains photographs of the so-called "pristine" bullet (CE-399). Viewed from the side it appears undamaged. However, viewed from the base one side of the bullet appears badly flattened along its length.
CE399 was reportedly recovered from Governor Connelly's stretcher and was most likely damaged when it passed thru his body.
IIRC, the ammo was Western 160gr. RNFMJ which Tuna has stated. That particular bullet was made with a cupro-nickel jacket and a lead core of 2-4% antimony. Very strong by todays standards. Hornady is the only one who makes "Cupro-Nickel" Bullets for African Hunting/Big Game Ammo. It is designed for thick skinned game or very deep penetration.
The WW 6.5 Carcano Ammo will pop up at gun shows every once in a while and have seen them at about $20.00 per cartridge.
Matt Anthony
02-17-2016, 02:11
The proof is in the film no matter what others think. The back of his head was partially removed which indicates a frontal entry wound. I am sure oswald was only a fraction of the play. There were multiple shooters. You cannot trust anything out of Washington. As far as finding the bullet on the gurnee....give me a break....really!!!
Matt
{snip} The back of his head was partially removed which indicates a frontal entry wound. {snip}
Matt
How come no hole(s) in the windshield? No projectiles in the passenger compartment? This whole subject has turned into an exercise in mental masturbation.
barretcreek
02-18-2016, 01:03
[QUOTE=jgaynor;447463]How come no hole(s) in the windshield? No projectiles in the passenger compartment?
November 2003 History Channel ran a week long program on JFK. One segment had the actual limousine, driving by the book depository, viewed from the 'grassy knoll', with a guy same size as JFK in the back seat. His head was sticking up above the windshield frame. And the car was coming straight to the camera, located where witnesses said they saw the men who left the scene right away.
Last week at Sirhan's parole hearing one of RFK's buddies, shot at the same time, said on the record he saw someone else shoot RFK. As did a woman who was there state last year. The whole thing is a charade.
psteinmayer
02-19-2016, 04:41
So many things associated with the Kennedy clan have been charades! From both assassinations, to the whole Teddy Chappaquiddick deal... It's one big farce!
RCBS will make you a custom seater plug if you send them 3 sample bullets. About $25. Contact them. Also, steel core is MILD steel, is NOT AP.
Read this from Wiki, esp the last sentence:
"With properly bulleted ammunition, the 6.5×52mm Carcano is an effective deer cartridge up to about 200m (220 yards).[citation needed] However, the standard Italian service round used an unstable round-nosed bullet with a propensity to tumble, whether hitting soft tissue/ballistic gel or harder material such as bone. See PBS Nova, "Cold Case: JFK",[1] aired 11/12/2013 for range tests.
Hand loaders should note that the currently available factory ammunition may lack accuracy due to use of a 6.7mm (.264 in) bullet instead of the 6.8mm (.268 in) as originally loaded.[citation needed]
Also, if you need to size down a bullet, you can use a sizer die for jacketed bullets made by CH Tool and Die (CH4D.com). Their website says bullets can be downsized .004 per step. CH has been in business for decades and makes quality products.
My interest in the Carcano lies only in my fascination with the JFK assisanation.
I don't think the original military rounds were .268 in diameter. The ones I have mic at .2657 in diameter about 1/2 way between .264 and .268. They were pulled from some 1930's rounds.
The cheap PPU carcano ammo now available is pretty much useless. I bought some because their price was lower than Normal cases. The cases are flimsy and weigh much less.
IIRC, the ammo was Western 160gr. RNFMJ which Tuna has stated. That particular bullet was made with a cupro-nickel jacket and a lead core of 2-4% antimony. Very strong by todays standards. Hornady is the only one who makes "Cupro-Nickel" Bullets for African Hunting/Big Game Ammo. It is designed for thick skinned game or very deep penetration.
The WW 6.5 Carcano Ammo will pop up at gun shows every once in a while and have seen them at about $20.00 per cartridge.
Show me anywhere that a "lead core" is documented.
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