Fouled bore

[Merc]

I was at a gun show recently where a really beautiful M1917 Eddystone was presented for sale for $1250. That was way more than what I was willing to pay but since I was in the market for this model at the time, I asked to take a look at it just to see why the seller thought it was worth that kind of money. It appeared to have all Eddystone parts (as much as I could see without taking it apart) with a near perfect stock and lots of blue but the bore was fouled so completely that very little light from my bore light was able to penetrate from the receiver to the muzzle. The seller says the rifle was used in parades and shot blanks at events and funerals, etc. The exterior was well cared for but the bore was obviously never cleaned. I've never seen anything like it and wondered why he didn't attempt to clean it before offering it for sale. I gave him back his rifle and walked away thinking about what it would take to salvage that barrel or if it would even be possible. What a shame.

[Dan Shapiro]

Probably didn't want to clean it as it would have revealed a pitted bore due to the corrosive blanks of the past. Purchased a CMP/VFW return. Bore was so bad that rounds were keyholing at 25 yards!

[Merc]

I suppose a new barrel is the only alternative for the show rifle but unfortunately, that pretty much destroys the collector value.

What became of your CMP/VFW return?

[joem]

The bore was probably really bad. Cleaning it would show a junk barrel and he'd never get what he wanted.

[RC20]

Anyone trying to sell a gun for that price is mandatory that the bore be cleaned and it should have TE an MW measurements (Threat Erosion and Muzzle Wear for those new to this stuff)

All parts are mandatory to be ID, you are buying a piece of history.

And a caveat, when you hear a rifle has been used with blanks, the TE measurement becomes ubber critical.

As noted by Dan Shaperio, it will keyhole. My brother had one like that.

The barrel was actually fine, the MW measurement was good, he shot it and keyholes at 25.

He checked it out and you could not get a TE reading the erosion went so far up.

That is where the blanks eat it up, not sure on the rest (though my brothers looked good and the muzzle was good).

If its an all E, even with that damage it may be a collectable item, its not a shooter. But anyone that tries to sell it like that will not have taken it down and would like about the parts. For a 1917 there is one part in the safety group that is close to impossible to get out to see.

I did manage to get his to shoot a 4 inch group at 50 yds, took a 200 gr flat based bullet and ran it slow.

He sold it to a guy with the stated issues who wanted one of that type and was not concerned.

[Merc]

I'm not familiar with the term "keyholing."

[kcw]

I'm not familiar with the term "keyholing."

The bullet starts to wobble in flight. In the most extreme form a near perfect sideway profile of the bullet will be printed in the target (assuming it gets anywhere near the target)

[jjrothWA]

Only thing to do is plug the bore with fresh Hoppe's and let it soak overnight. Drain and run bore brush for 30 strokes and soak again.

Did that to my 17 and took three days to show me the rifling, turns out it was great and a good shooter.

PS: what date the barrel stamp [@muzzle below the front sight] it is consistent with SN range for that year??

[joem]

For that price with a possible junk barrel, I'd pass!

[JB White]

Over the years I have "restored" parade rifles for the AL and at least one VFW post. Not one of those good looking rifles is worth that kind of money. Most are purty sure 'nuff and on occasion I matched as many M1917 E, R, and W parts as possible. After all I wasn't the first one to be doing maintenance on them. About half are worth their weight as decent shooters.

[Merc]

I went back to the same gun show that's held every few months and the same M1917 Eddystone was still there and still for sale and still wasn't cleaned.

[PhillipM]

I'm not one of them, but some collectors don't care much about the bore because they don't shoot.

[Merc]

For that price, it better be near pristine in all respects.

[Andouille]

I hand picked a pretty nice one at CMP South Store when they first hit started selling them. The deciding factor on that one was, the bore appeared to be fairly decent. First round down range, the bolt had to be knocked open with a block of wood. It was not an over-pressure problem. The chamber was so horribly pitted the case expanded into the pits/craters, causing the extraction problems. Well, extraction problem because I only fired the first round.

My point being, even if the bore appears fine, the chamber might not be and that might not be apparent without the use of a bore scope.

[dave]

I am primarily a collector (Mauser's) and never look at bores, I have a rather large collection and if you "shoot one, you have shot them all". When I clean and find an excellent bore I consider it a bonus! Dealers seldom clean rifles for sale, especially bores. When I was young it was different, but not any more.

[Merc]

I am primarily a collector (Mauser's) and never look at bores, I have a rather large collection and if you "shoot one, you have shot them all". When I clean and find an excellent bore I consider it a bonus! Dealers seldom clean rifles for sale, especially bores. When I was young it was different, but not any more.

I don't always consider the condition of the bore when buying an antique firearm. Only the ones I plan to shoot must have a good bore and action. Sellers at gun shows always surprise me by asking top dollar for WW1 & 2 rifles that have worn or fouled bores. Knowing what to look for in advance helps to avoid buying a non-shooter.

I own two firearms that I have no intention of shooting. I acquired them for what they are - examples that were used during the Civil War and Indian Wars.

Merc

[Merc]

I hand picked a pretty nice one at CMP South Store when they first hit started selling them. The deciding factor on that one was, the bore appeared to be fairly decent. First round down range, the bolt had to be knocked open with a block of wood. It was not an over-pressure problem. The chamber was so horribly pitted the case expanded into the pits/craters, causing the extraction problems. Well, extraction problem because I only fired the first round.

My point being, even if the bore appears fine, the chamber might not be and that might not be apparent without the use of a bore scope.

Too bad. I always try to look at the bore from both ends with a bore light. It's not ideal but it might show some signs of rust. Assuming you still have the rifle and the rest is in nice shape, I'd be tempted to have a gunsmith take a look at the chamber to see if it could be cleaned up and polished enough to allow normal case extraction without making it too spaceous. Strange how the chamber became pitted while the bore remained clean. Maybe stored somewhere damp without the bolt?

Merc

[Andouille]

Too bad. I always try to look at the bore from both ends with a bore light. It's not ideal but it might show some signs of rust. Assuming you still have the rifle and the rest is in nice shape, I'd be tempted to have a gunsmith take a look at the chamber to see if it could be cleaned up and polished enough to allow normal case extraction without making it too spaceous. Strange how the chamber became pitted while the bore remained clean. Maybe stored somewhere damp without the bolt?

Merc

Well, Merc, I wouldn't say the bore remained clean, only "fairly nice." I doubt very many of the rifles that came back from Veteran's groups had clean or very nice bores. Overall, it was an OK looking rifle with a fairly nice, but not great bore, and I briefly toyed with just assuming the position and having the gun re-barreled, but CMP was kind enough to exchange it, so that, was that.

And trust me on this: the chamber was so horribly pitted that it would have had to be polished out to something like 300 magnum diameter (only a slight exaggeration!) to be smoothed up sufficiently.

[Merc]

Well, Merc, I wouldn't say the bore remained clean, only "fairly nice." I doubt very many of the rifles that came back from Veteran's groups had clean or very nice bores. Overall, it was an OK looking rifle with a fairly nice, but not great bore, and I briefly toyed with just assuming the position and having the gun re-barreled, but CMP was kind enough to exchange it, so that, was that.

And trust me on this: the chamber was so horribly pitted that it would have had to be polished out to something like 300 magnum diameter (only a slight exaggeration!) to be smoothed up sufficiently.

Understood. Too bad. I hate to hear of a M1917 that was allowed to deteriorate.

[Merc]

Well, Merc, I wouldn't say the bore remained clean, only "fairly nice." I doubt very many of the rifles that came back from Veteran's groups had clean or very nice bores. Overall, it was an OK looking rifle with a fairly nice, but not great bore, and I briefly toyed with just assuming the position and having the gun re-barreled, but CMP was kind enough to exchange it, so that, was that.

And trust me on this: the chamber was so horribly pitted that it would have had to be polished out to something like 300 magnum diameter (only a slight exaggeration!) to be smoothed up sufficiently.

Question for the gunsmiths out there: Assuming the bore is ok, is it possible or economically feasible to install a sleeve in a M1917 chamber damaged by corrosion?

[trimmer99]

I have a trapdoor that had a pitted chamber. I sent the barreled action to a man named Hoyt (if you need his first name and contact info I can look it up). He resleeved the chamber for me and turned a non shooter into a shooter. I'm not sure of the mechanics involved between these two different rifles but I would think it possible to resleeve the chamber on a 1917. At least worth checking out. It was relatively inexpensive. Of course it detracts from the integrity of an historical piece but I am not personally interested in a rifle that I can't shoot. RB

[Merc]

I have a trapdoor that had a pitted chamber. I sent the barreled action to a man named Hoyt (if you need his first name and contact info I can look it up). He resleeved the chamber for me and turned a non shooter into a shooter. I'm not sure of the mechanics involved between these two different rifles but I would think it possible to resleeve the chamber on a 1917. At least worth checking out. It was relatively inexpensive. Of course it detracts from the integrity of an historical piece but I am not personally interested in a rifle that I can't shoot. RB

RB,

I thought resleeving was a viable and economical option. An unaltered specimen is always desirable but preserving a
shooter, especially one that can be saved from being scrapped for parts, is also desirable. Can you see the sleeve?

Merc

[trimmer99]

Merc,

If you know what you are looking for you can tell. It's seen as a brighter ring at the opening of the chamber. Most would not know it was there. If you are selling though you would want to make the buyer aware of it. RB