Powder Question

[XLF30]

Hello all,

I'd like to know if anyone has personal experience with using Win 748 or H 335 to load Garand rounds with 150 gr bullet. I'm aware there are loads listed in various loading tables, and also in Clarke's M1 loading article, but that, of course, doesn't mean it's a good idea, esp for a gas gun. I'm also aware that 4895 is a great powder for Garands and there are others too, but I'm asking about H335 and W748. I'm also concerned that Clarke's article says 'never use anything slower than IMR 4320', and most tables show 748 slower than 4320; then Clarke goes on to give 748 loads, apparently contrary to his own warning.

H335 also sits right next to 4895 of the burn rate chart, so it "seems" a good choice, but that could be misleading.

I'm primarily concerned about cycling, and avoiding damage to the op rod with inappropriate port pressures.

Would be great to hear from someone who has extensive personal experience with loading either of these powders. Of course, if it's a bad idea, horror stories or "don't do that" warnings are welcome also.

Experience tells me someone will ask "why do you want to use those powders?" The reason is that 1) They are available to me, 2) I use them, esp 748, for other guns, 3. I'm looking for a ball powder that will flow easily thru a Dillon 550 measure and be safe for my Garand.

I'm not trying to open a long thread about Clarke's wisdom or a host of other possible topics. i'm just trying to find out if the two powders I mentioned will be good choices to load 150gr bullets in a M1 Garand.

Multiple replies welcome.

Thanks!

[Bill E]

Not familiar with powders but there are adjustable gas locks one can use to vent excess pressure preventing damage to op rod and receiver.

[barretcreek]

Recent Hornady manuals have gas gun specific sections for 5.56, 7.62 and Garand.

[PhillipM]

Recent Hornady manuals have gas gun specific sections for 5.56, 7.62 and Garand.

and they are anemic compared to standard garand match ammo, and the 223 may not stay supersonic at 600.
As a whole, not just service rifle loads, it appears their new manualsl are written by lawyers.

[joem]

I only use 4895 for .30-06 so there is never a question about shooting loads in a Garand or other .30-06 rifles I have.

[GB in WY]

I have used 748 in a Garand but it was a long time ago and I did not retain the loading data as the accuracy wasn't as good as I thought it ought to be. We all know that rifles vary so my experience may not be the same one you might have. I am guessing that you want to use 748 or H335 because they are what you have? With that being said, I second the motion on an adjustable gas plug, then it will never be an issue. If you choose not to use one than start toward the bottom of the published data and work your way up. Before I knew better/pre-internet, I used several powders that that I now know were way to slow for a Garand (Accurate 3100 comes to mind) but I was loading middle of the road loads and it was never an issue. I don't shoot my Garands in HP matches anymore (I do still shoot an occasional Garand match) so I am not up on all the latest loading data and have a lifetime supply of H4895 (I'm old) even though I shoot it in many of my hunting rifles in addition to some reloading for the Garand.

So, I guess, the short version is, Yes, I have used 748 but I wasn't happy with the results. No, I haven't used H335 in a Garand, so I am not in a position to offer a experienced opinion. GB:icon_salut:

[Cosine26]

748 was once the powder of choice by the bench rest community. I ran into some pressure problems when loading it for 30-06 so stuck with 760-a slower powder.
H335 was, I believe, loaded in 7.62 ball. I unloaded a lot of ball rounds to get the cases. I did not find it to be especially accurate. When loaded and fired, it gave off a huge ball of flame and sounded like a firecracker going off in a 50 gallon drum. I never really used it much except for experimental work. When fired in M80 ball it appeared to be satisfactory.
FWIE

[emmagee1917]

I used 47 grains of Win 748 behind a 150 grain M2 ball for decades . Shot well in every WW2 Garand , 03 , 03A3 , enfield , Browning 1917 or 1919 I owned . I now use IMR 4895 and weigh each load on a scale .
Chris

[Jim In Oklahom]

In 1964 our rifle club received an issue of M2 Ball from the DCM that was loaded with ball powder. There were soon reports that the ammo could create a depression in chambers at about the level of the powder charge when the air space was at the front of the cartridge case. This wasn't a bad problem for Mi rifles but made operation of a bolt rifle in rapid fire a real problem. The ammo was sent back and the DCM replaced it.

I've always used stick powder in my .30'06 handloads

[Cosine26]

As I remember the situation, it occurred primarily with bolt rifles with a specific lot of M2 Ball ammo loaded with specific lot of ball powder. Match shooters in, slow fire single loading, made a practice of tapping the base of the round in the upright position to seat the powder, which did not fill the case, against the primer assuring uniformity of ammo. There were a couple of other condition that aggravated the situation but they escape me now. As I remember, there was no problem with the M1, because closing the bolt usually distributed the powder and avoided the condition. As I recall it occurred with a limited number of lots of M2 ball using a specific ball powder having a special coating. I did not know that it occurred as late as 1964, but my rifle club regularly received WWII time era ammo, and AP at that, DEN 42 SL 43, etc. in the 1960's.
FWIW

[XLF30]

Thanks. Accuracy not so much a question for me because these will be short range and/or plinking rounds, H4895 for accuracy rounds. Looks like I'll avoid H335, perhaps work up a load for 748 starting low and using a Schuster plug. Thanks.

[Cosine26]

For XLF30
I do not believe that there is any thing wrong with 335 powder. I have fired a lot of it in 7.62 M80 Ball with no problem. I preferred 760 over 748 because I was shooting heavy bullets such as 180 gr and 190 gr. and need a slower powder. Ball powder meters very well through powder measures and 760 was about as accurate as any that I have tried. I have used in in 7.62 with the M72 bullet and some heavy match bullets with good results. I thought that the army had pulled all of the ammo loaded with the problem ball powder, but maybe not since it was designed for use in the M1 and gave no problems in the M1.

[XLF30]

Thanks cosine26.