New Cartridge neck rim problems

[Richard H Brown Jr]

Greetings:

I have a question for the group.

Finally fired my new (to me that is) 1903. with just 20 rnds of new Winchester 150gr Power X with the Power Point bullet.

BEFORE I even took it to the range, I had a gun shop check head space.. They didn't have gauges so they did the add circle of paper to a case back to see that it wouldn't lock in the chamber.

So I fired 20 rnds and was policing up the brass and noticed that the neck rim was rough to the touch, and the rim was fire formed to what looks like the lands and grooves of the barrel. See the attacked poor photo of 2 of the cartridges:

http://www.jouster.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=34554&stc=1

I need someone to tell me what the problem is. I *suspect* that the final chamber headspace wasn't done when the barrel was put on.

I am taking it to another smith tomorrow, along with some of the cases that I recovered. And until I get a go ahead, it's not going to be fired again.

Any suggestions will be greatly appreciated.

R H Brown

[m1903rifle]

Was the bolt really hard to close?

[Richard H Brown Jr]

m1903rifle:

Sorta, it'd close, but you had to flip it a bit to turn it, but after closing once, it became easier to close on an empty chamber several times, I didn't fell any problems closing on a round. but not used to an 03's chambering. If I take the striker and firing pin rod out, it closes ok. The first gun shop I took it to and specifically asked about the head spacing, after a week, I got it, and they said it was ok, they didn't have the gauges but it would close on a chambered round, and if they added a circle of paper on the base and tried to close it, it wouldn't close. (yeah I know, don't use that smith again).

Like I said in my first post, I'm gonna take it to another smith, and insist on proper go/no-go/field gauge check. And if he has to buy the 3 gauges, I'll pay for them, and keep them. 8*)

With a total, so far of 3 .30-06 rifles (03, 03-A3, M-1 Garand) I'll need them sooner or later.

R H Brown

[Parashooter]

All that's apparent there is the impression of a stout crimp applied when the cartridges were manufactured. Has nothing to do with headspace and isn't a safety issue. If you have any unfired cartridges of the same type, look closely and you'll see what I'm talking about.

http://www.ammoland.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/Winchester-30-06-180gr-Ammunition.jpg

[Emri]

All that's apparent there is the impression of a stout crimp applied when the cartridges were manufactured. Has nothing to do with headspace and isn't a safety issue. If you have any unfired cartridges of the same type, look closely and you'll see what I'm talking about.


That is exactly what I saw in Richard's pic. Nothing to worry about. Also Richard, there is nothing wrong with using shims to check "cartridge headspace". I do it all the time. It will not tell you what the "chamber headspace" is, but is an acceptable check for determining if the rifle possibly has excessive chamber headspace.

FWIW,

Emri

[joem]

Agree with parashooter. Factory crimp.

[chuckindenver]

if it was indeed short chambered,, no way would you be able to close the bolt..

[Richard H Brown Jr]

Morning All:


I didn't seem to remember seeing that crimp you mentioned with the photo you posted. But I found out the smith I was going to go to does in fact have the .30-06 gauges, so we'll see. Unfortunately, it'll be tomorrow before I can get the rifle to him, Seems the Whole Clam Dinner to go that I got at 4:30 pm yesterday ( the day at the range ) didn't agree with me, and I don't want to get far away from the "reading room". He also asked for some fired cases, so he can look at what I want checked on. So this is much better that the gun shop I took it to, before firing it.

Also on the range trip, I managed to get some "poodle rifle" shooters to try GLOG'S OWN RIFLE calibre! And with the application of a rubber grenade 'boot' from Sarco


http://www.e-sarcoinc.com/rubberbootforgrenadelauncherforspfm1grd.aspx

I even got a young lady, who was shooting pistols with her S.O., to shoot one round thru it.

I used a target at around 50yds, because the wood target holders were all shot to pieces and only 1 vertical post was available on the position. I did try to put up a 100yd full size target, but the wood 2x4 and plywood target holder was pretty much splinters, and collapsed after 1 shot.

I did get a 'huff' going when most of the other shooters called it a "MAUSER!" We really need a fine manufacturer to make some
100yrs of M1903 Springfield repro's. After all they're doing it for M-1 carbines, and 1911a1's and Ithaca M37 shotguns (Hello Inland.)

So if you have a 'shooter' grade 1903, take it to the range and let people try a shot. We might get more 03's made. 8*)

RHB

[leftyo]

find a new gunsmith. using a cartridge and paper dont tell you squat about anything. a guage and a shim isnt the best, but is leap years better than paper and a cartridge, because you have absolutely no idea what dimensions the cartridge is.

[Kurt]

Its without a doubt, a factory crimp. The shoulder would stop the round from going into the lands with factory rounds for sure and in all likelihood any round. It wouldn't hurt anything to check the head space just for reference at this point in time, but you don't have a concern with that brass.

Kurt

[Richard H Brown Jr]

Greetings All:

Update, New smith had the gauges, and checked and showed me that the headspace was correct, and the slight problem with closing is the extractor being pushed around the cartridge head into the groove. So the rifle is infact, safe to shoot.

FYI: I'm trying to source a local hobby wood worker to make me a wood spare parts container, like the ones that were issued to every other rifle up until 1920.

Asked if he can do it in either the spec walnut or brasswood. OR an good hardwood that can take a BLO dip for protection. Also I'll have it specifically stamped REPRODUCTION. If he can do it, and can give a good price, I'll post in the Sales section a email address for the rest of you '03 addic.... err fans....

RHB