For Fred: another RIA "in-betweener"

[Rick the Librarian]

Fred,

As I know you find those RIA M1903s that may have been double heat-treated interesting, even with a LN serial number, this one may be another. It has a 1917 barrel. However, the stock markings are suspicious.

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=545519418

[Fred]

That's a pretty interesting looking rifle Rick. It'd be interesting to hear what John thinks about it. The rifle is 809 numbers over mine.

[Fred]

I would bet that the receiver is casehardened though since the barrel is so more in line wth the serial number than I would think would be the case if the receiver was barreled with a mid 1918 barrel, which is one of the indications that mine was one of the Double Heat treated receivers.
I'd like your opinion as well as Johns on this.
The hand guard appears to me to be of the type coming out of Springfield around 1919 or 1920.

[Rick the Librarian]

The 11-17 barrel caught my eye, as well. Wondered if there was any other way to tell for sure.

What did you think of the stock markings? The "RIA" in particular looked "faked" or added; maybe the WJS, too.

[Fred]

It seems to be a rifle reassembled from mixed parts while in service in a post WWI period. Probably after a thorough unit cleaning and not a bubba put together.
John says that the same might be true of my rifle. Who knows? I think the rifle is legit though. I like the condition of the stock. The barrel and receiver are Beatiful. The bolt I think is single heat treated. I could be wrong and will take another
look.

[rockisle1903]

They guy is a KNOWN German mauser humper...Anything this guy sells should be looked on with suspicion...A true turd monger...

[Rick the Librarian]

I admit I was looking more at the receiver and barrel. As I said, I have suspicions about the stock markings.

[John Beard]

With an R.I.A./10-17 dated barrel, the rifle is almost certainly a low number casehardened rifle. RIA numerical records from WWI indicate that they halted rifle production at about S/N 269,000. So the serial number is consistent with one of the last casehardened rifles.

RIA WWI stocks were marked "RI" on the fore end tip, and did NOT exhibit "W.J.S." inspection stamps. The rifle appears to be an original barreled receiver assembled with assorted parts.

J.B.

[Emri]

I admit I was looking more at the receiver and barrel. As I said, I have suspicions about the stock markings.

You didn't read the description ?? Seller stated it had all the correct type 1, type 2, or whatever parts !!

[Rick the Librarian]

With an R.I.A./10-17 dated barrel, the rifle is almost certainly a low number casehardened rifle. RIA numerical records from WWI indicate that they halted rifle production at about S/N 269,000. So the serial number is consistent with one of the last casehardened rifles.

RIA WWI stocks were marked "RI" on the fore end tip, and did NOT exhibit "W.J.S." inspection stamps. The rifle appears to be an original barreled receiver assembled with assorted parts.

J.B.

I can vaguely remember "way back when", perhaps 2002, I had a stock with a RI and a WJS - wasn't there some talk that inspector WJS (who remains unidentified) worked briefly at Rock Island? Obviously not trying to prove the "veracity" of this stock in the current auction.

[ElWoodman]

Has a SA upper band, stock markings appear "helped" Seen RI stocks, and "S" stocks; never seen a RIA stock.Hinky....But then again, a 1917 RIA w/ hatcher hole....poss USMC? Wonder what SRS says.......

[dokcop]

No expert here, but the several correct RIA rifles I've handled, including #282689, which I have in my lap at the moment, all have script early P firing proofs. I stand to be corrected here, but doesn't the serifed block P on the rifle in question indicate a Springfield stock?

[Rick the Librarian]

In my opinion the stock has been "boogered with" and could have started out as a Springfield stock.

[duke133]

Rick,
Didn't you put together a "real or fake" post over a period of days a ways back, might even be the old CSP forum, for the Garands? Did you ever do anything like that for the 03's? I do know today it is preferred not to openly explain real vs. fake with the amount of counterfeiting going on but just wondered.

[Rick the Librarian]

I had toyed with the idea several years ago, but it would be difficult to come up with the "fakes" unless I had the article in front of me.

[robh5]

The bayonet lug on the front band appears to be stamped with a H. From an earlier post (2-12) when I was asking about 03 hardware I was told that was done by Springfield, except for very early manufactured rifles which were un-marked.