WB Cartouch inside a Box..... What do you say?

[rlc_hntr]

Guys,

I'm looking at WRA rifle that may be coming up for sale in the future.
The rifle is in the 113,xxx Ser. number range.
Please look at the cartouch and let me know what you think.
I've never handled a real WB boxed/boxed stock before and am looking for some help from the CSP body.

rlc_hntr@yahoo.com


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v518/d35382/WRA%20WB%20stock%20Cart/100_1162_zpspzmqmrke.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v518/d35382/WRA%20WB%20stock%20Cart/100_1157_zps98milkx7.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v518/d35382/WRA%20WB%20stock%20Cart/100_1152_zpsyxrjqnbx.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v518/d35382/WRA%20WB%20stock%20Cart/101_0057_zpsdbwjz8mi.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v518/d35382/WRA%20WB%20stock%20Cart/100_1152_zpsyxrjqnbx.jpg

[RCS]

where is bodyman when you need him ?


Note the anneal color on the receiver, what are the details on the stock ? still no trap

[mannparks]

How does the rest of the rifle look?

[rlc_hntr]

Gents,

Family friend just passed last month. He was a former Korean War Marine Vet.
This is part of his estate and awaiting what his Wife wants to do with his collection.
The rifle has been with him for approx. ten years. I'm just trying to get a feel for what is correct and what might not be correct. Thanks for your help with my rifle/stock question.

3488834889348903489134892

[mannparks]

Don't know where Rick is but that rifle should spark some real interest in this community

[m1903rifle]

Looks really great from what I see. I would love to have it in my collection.

[RCS]

you guys should check the CMP Forums - cartouche is fake

[mannparks]

you guys should check the CMP Forums - cartouche is fake
Don't see anything about it on the CMP,where?

[RCS]

on the "ask each other" section go to the top where it says "real or fake" Rick B. has posted on this stock

[mannparks]

Ok thanks

[rlc_hntr]

Rick B. tells me that the Cartouch is a fake. I've looked over the rest of the rifle and it looks wonderful.
I will tell the Widow that the rifle is suspect once she decides what she wants to do with the Veterans collection. Thanks everyone for your help.

rlc_hntr

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[CPC]

What kind of slide is on the follower? Maybe on a PC it is clear but on my phone it is hard to tell. Thanks for sharing this interesting rifle.

[RCS]

early Winchester rifles have the DuLite color, plus early variations of the common parts such as the follower arm, slide on the follower, follower rod,markings on
safety and bullet guide. If possible you can show some of the internal parts in some photos

[Rick B]

It appears to be a common put together rifle with a fake WB 2nd box cartouche. Stock may be Winchester and may not be as we havent seen it to make a verdict. Rick B

[Bodyman]

I just quietly having the greatest of faith in your guys' abilities - maybe you guys do not know that you are a pretty impressive collective. With so many eyes, it is hard to miss almost anything, like on this one, too;

http://forums.thecmp.org/showthread.php?t=186391

Over the years I have watched loads of people lurk and learn from these threads. Even inexperienced eyes can catch something important, the trick with the forums is to always try to be positive and encourage even the newest of folks to participate. As their skills grow so will their confidence and we will have the next batch of new posters to continue sharing their knowledge and this excellent tradition the Culvers began so many years ago here.

Print is great but it is static. The internet is fluid and able to respond which makes it the ultimate supplement to the books and the best way to learn how to apply what you read. I wish we still had guys like Lane that put together all these great strings and posts into his tips page - those were also excellent.

I'm always around but as far as I can see you guys are doing great. Keep it up and have fun.

AMHO Best all.

PS; that double box was one of those pieces that you always want so badly to be real and right as rain when you first see it - that is when you really need to slow down and pay attention to those hairs on the back of your neck and try to figure out why they are bristling. You usually see what you need to see. Don't let yourself be blinded by how badly you want something - it makes you do stupid things. Again, AMHO - best all.

[CPC]

While some of the most knowledgeable are following this thread, is there a consensus on the start and stop sn range for boxed WB's?
Regards

[Rick B]

Starts around 114929 and from the amount of them found it should be a very short period. Figure the time it would take for them to have the stamp made. If a week then 116,000 If two weeks 117,000 and if 3 weeks then 118,00. I doubt it was more than a month putting it in the 119,000 range and that is pushing it. All this said there always is a small chance it went further or a 2nd person was helping and periodically it seen use but truthfully doubt it. Rick B

[Bodyman]

Kind of about all I could ever come up with - 4 thousand or so as an absolute max and probably not that many (I kinda leaned towards about 3000 or so as a comfortable middle number). Lacking originals, overlaying barn wood numbers on actual production was about the only analysis that I ever felt could hold water. Rick has better numbers than we had years ago so he can be much more accurate, but they seem to hold pretty true. Start and finish ranges are hard because of overlaps and we have no idea how overlapped Winchester was at this time.

[CPC]

Thank you for the responses. I'll have to revise my copy of Canfields book as he indicates the WB cartouche starts around 110000 (p.243) which I thought was a little early. Can an assumption be made that the RS stamp was used up until the range you have proposed? Regards

[RCS]

There are three types of stocks

1) WRA RS no trap, just very much like the last SA SPG stock, same trigger guard recess and curve on the pistol grip but WRA stock channel

2) WRA WB double box, no trap, WRA notch in trigger guard recess, Winchester curved pistol grip and channel

3) WRA WB, no trap, WRA notch in trigger guard recess, Winchester curved pistol grip and channel

What would be interesting to find is the WRA RS cartouche on stock number 2 or the WRA WB double box cartouche on stock number 1

photos show the WRA RS no trap3498334984 stocks, they are different from the WRA WB stocks

[Rick B]

Bruce and I talked a bit back when he found the Polishing shops records. RS or Robert Sears left June 30th and no rifles were built between June 25th 1941 to July 8th 1941. There was a clear stopping point for change over and some changes to the wood itself. Start serial on July 8th was 114523 [ which was the 14523 receiver ] I seen some of the Polishing shop ledger and must say stuff like that is really cool. It shows ever serial logged as the last one done that day. Doesn't mean it was a completed rifle but that the receiver was being readied. Rick B

[CPC]

Thanks Rick for sharing the information. I am familiar with the records as they have also had an impact on the serial number dates of the antique lever rifles as well. Regards and thanks again for sharing your discussions.
CC