View Full Version : Cleaning/Refurbishing Bayonets
I have these two bayonets my Dad gave me. One is a 1915 U.S. bayonet and the other he believes is a Japanese WW2 bayonet. He was given both in 1945-6 by a Marine who fought in WW2. I'd like to find out how to get them cleaned up but I've also heard that doing so can hurt their value if they have any).
Here are more pictures of the Japanese bayonet:
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Any help identifying this bayonet and how to clean both would be appreciated.
Major Tom
04-11-2016, 04:51
The 1915 bayonet is valuable. I would not do any "cleaning" other than wiping off the crud, if any crud. Wipe down with gun oil periodically. The scabbard is equally valuable. Do not use "cleaners" on it.
IditarodJoe
04-11-2016, 06:46
Jerhal - I'm no expert, but . . . Your US bayonet is a Model 1905 manufactured at the Springfield Armory in 1915. In its original form, the blade was 16 inches long measured from the cross guard to the tip. The hilt was blued to just beyond the cross guard and the blade was polished bright, so yours appears to be correct and original in that regard. I agree with Major Tom, only a very gentle cleaning (I would think odorless mineral spirits would be safe), followed by a thin coat of good quality gun oil on the metal and a bit of boiled linseed oil rubbed into the wood.
The scabbard is for a US Model 1917 bayonet (based on the British Pattern 14 bayonet) and was originally produced for the US Model of 1917 rifle. The Model 1905 and 1917 bayonets were used concurrently during WW1.
That jap 'knife' is not a bayonet at all, no barrel ring on cross guard, no way to attach pommel to bayo lug. All jap bayos look very much like a Brit 1903 bayo, which were patterned after the jap model. There is one short, very rare, jap bayo for a sub-machine gun but this does not look like one, even tho this one is not complete or has been modified some way.
I do not know why people say 'do not clean' and leave rust and other crap on military equipment. Sure did not look this way while in service. It is just the result of careless use 'after service', poor maintenance, and bad storage. Far from "original as used by the military"!
Thanks for the replies and advice. I'll only clean as recommended. Anything further I'd like to have done by a professional. Any recommendations for a restorer?
I have no intentions of selling the US bayonet but now I'm curious. When you say valuable, exactly how much is valuable? I'm wondering if it should be added to my valuable property insurance.
As far as the Japanese bayonet/knife goes, my Dad was told the threads on the end were where it screwed into the rifle. He was also told that while it was short for a bayonet, it was made that way for the jungle. If you guys think it is really a WW2 Japanese bayonet/knife, I'd probably send it to a restorer too.
Major Tom
04-14-2016, 12:37
The US bayonet with scabbard is probably valued at $400-500. Maybe more!
IditarodJoe
04-14-2016, 01:15
I've a few questions about your US bayonet, Jerhal.
1. What is the exact length of the blade from the crossguard to the tip?
2. Does the release button work freely? Have you tried putting it on a rifle?
3. Have you tried loosening the screw in the center of the grips? (NOT suggesting that you try this; just asking)
4. What is the status of the metal finish on the crossguard and handle? Heavily rusted? Light coating of rust? A dark patina?
I'm only asking to help to better answer your questions.
Certainly not in that condition, and what you quote are asking prices. Altho not around here, 250-300 would be tops if in excellent shape and matched scabbard. (scabbard is not even correct for Bayo!) . And they stay on tables for a long time at that!
As for the knife, even it it is jap, no bayo in the world attached by "screwing into the rifle". and all bayos that I know of, except German) have barrel rings on the hilt. You would have to show or describe any marking before it could be ID'ed.
Thanks for the further responses.
I'm not too worried about knowing the exact value of the bayonet because I have no intention of selling it. Just wanted to know if it was worth naming on the insurance. Since it is below $2000, it's not required.
Answering IditarodJoe's questions:
1. I measure it at 15 15/16 inches.
2. The release button works freely and I can see the "latch" on the top end of the handle move up and down so that it is flush in the grove. It does stick occasionally, maybe 1 out of 10 times. I've not tried attaching it a rifle, I don't have one to try this with.
3. I have not tried loosen the screw. I don't really want to for fear of breaking something.
4. The metal has various stages of rust and patina. I'm attaching more pictures to show this.
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Here are some more showing the rust.
I'd love to have this cleaned up/restored, but only if it does not detract from it historically.
Dave,
The only markings on the Japanese knife are unreadable. There is one marking on each side at the top of the blade right before the cross piece. Attached are the best pictures I can take.
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IditarodJoe
04-14-2016, 06:31
Jerhal - About ten years ago, an article written by the head curator for museum at the Springfield Armory National Historic Site on preserving antique arms was posted on the NPS website. I believe the article has long since been taken down, but back then I did manage to save a copy of the text as a six-page MS Word document. The CSP email function doesn't appear to allow for attachments, but if you'd like to send me an email message through this site I'll email a copy back to you. (If any of you more experienced posters know how I could post it here for everyone's benefit, please let me know.)
This article is certainly not the final word on conserving antique arms, but it might be a good starting point for you.
In first pics the handle appeared heavily rusted, second ones do not look so bad. The stamps on the knife are not clear enough to ID but they do not look to be jap of 1900's period.
Dave,
Thanks. Guess it will remain a mystery...
jaie5070
04-15-2016, 05:13
If the 1905 were mine I would try and remove the grips and then give the metal a LIGHT scrubbing with a green pad soaked in oil. You really have to work at it to ruin patina or any remaining finish with a fine green scrubby or fine bronze wool soaked in oil. Keep the oil of the wood if you can't remove them. Or if you are willing to work at it, build an apparatus to remove any rust by electrolysis. (Check youtube).
PhillipM
04-16-2016, 06:45
If the 1905 were mine I would try and remove the grips and then give the metal a LIGHT scrubbing with a green pad soaked in oil. You really have to work at it to ruin patina or any remaining finish with a fine green scrubby or fine bronze wool soaked in oil. Keep the oil of the wood if you can't remove them. Or if you are willing to work at it, build an apparatus to remove any rust by electrolysis. (Check youtube).
I wouldn't use electrolysis unless he could make a fixture to suspend the blade point down, but not immerse the factory bluing.
US M1905s and their variants take down easily. I understand your being hesitant to do so if you've never done it before. A drop of penetrating oil (Kroil is my favorite) on the head and exposed threads on the tip will loosed it. Make certain you use a screwdriver st from the hilt and grip frame using a piece of denim or other coarse cloth like burlap.
1/501,
I actually ordered some gun oil and very fine bronze wool today to try and clean the rust off myself. I'm going to carefully try it on a portion of the crossbar and if I do okay, I'll probably try and disassemble it to do the whole bayonet.
I just spent the last 6 or 7 hours working on this. I used some very fine steel wool lightly soaked in gun oil very lightly to know off the high rust. Then I used first a green scrubby pad and then fine bronze wool with gun oil. Whoever said (not here but at another site) that bronze wool does leave a residue was lying...
Despite the comment from jaie5070 about it being hard to hurt the patina, I think I might have. I think I might have confused rust with patina and scrubbed too much/too hard. But I think it looks a lot better than the rust.
Another friend said I ought to use a bronze brush on my Dremel to get even more off. But this scares me.
Where do you guys think I'm at? Too much? Not enough?
Also. I've read different things about putting a light coat of gun oil on everything before I reassemble it. Should I?
Here are a bunch of pictures over the next couple of posts.
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Here's the scabbard. It had what looked like rust at the top and bottom on the non-leather parts. I cleaned it with soap, hot water and a green scrubby. Then a little gun oil and bronze wool. I figured out when all the rust/dirt was off it the top and bottom are actually a metal covered by a leather paint. I started seeing where some of the paint came off (hence the rust).
I used a leather cream on it after it dried.
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Jerhal,
Thanks for the pics! gotta get mine out a see what needs to be done to preserve them too.
All the best.
Here's the scabbard. It had what looked like rust at the top and bottom on the non-leather parts. I cleaned it with soap, hot water and a green scrubby. Then a little gun oil and bronze wool. I figured out when all the rust/dirt was off it the top and bottom are actually a metal covered by a leather paint. I started seeing where some of the paint came off (hence the rust).
I used a leather cream on it after it dried.
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That scabbard is for a 1917 Enfield bayo---not a '03 bayo.
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