Krag Carbine Model 1896

[loco_engr]

Hello All! New member here from NE Kansas

I am seeking help getting an fair evaluation of the Model 1896 Springfield Armory carbine I own.
s/n 33540 is within the original carbine range.
22" barrel
Forearm doesn't appear to be original, but the checkering appears to professionally done (IMHO)
Rear sight has been removed and the replacement fill-in screws where ground off to fit flush, were done buy
a hack. Butt stock has a cleaning "string" enclosed.
Will sell with ammo (Modern loads) 1 Box 150 gr, 17 rds 165 gr soft point

[Kragrifle]

Receiver is the only item not damaged or altered. Valued only for parts.

[Kragrifle]

Unless receiver has been altered, then value is low.

[1563621]

400. or so.

[psteinmayer]

Hmmmm $400 would be the upper end of that. Sanded and altered stock, non-standard front sight blade. rear sight holes filled (not too good) with cut and filed screws... and filing has removed bluing from the barrel, the barrel looks like it's unclean or possibly corroded (at least in the muzzle area), etc. I would go $300 or less.

Also, ammo boxes look like something someone threw together. If they are reloads, I would only consider them for the brass, and break them down. Who knows how they were loaded. I won't trust any of my guns - ESPECIALLY my Krags - to ammo that someone else (other than factory) has loaded. I mean no offense by this, but I know someone who was almost killed shooting something that someone else loaded - AND loaded wrong!

Just my $0.02

[IditarodJoe]

Welcome to the CSP forum loco_engr. I'm always fascinated by the ways in which those who came before us chose to modify, and personalize, what were at the time inexpensive surplus guns. Possibly one of our more knowledgeable members will be able to tell us whether your receiver and barrel began life as a rifle or carbine. The workman clearly wanted better sights. Whether this was for hunting or target shooting we may never know, but if this was originally a full length rifle it wouldn't seem to make much sense to cut it down to carbine length for target shooting. I'm curious to know how the bore is and, most importantly, how it shoots.

All in all, it's a neat looking little gun. A skilled smith could redo the filling of the rear sight holes so as to be virtually unnoticeable. When you say the forearm doesn't appear to be original, are you referring only to the checkering or does the wood appear to be spliced? The fact that the prior owner scratched his social security number into the butt plate adds some interest. I for one would enjoy seeing more pictures, just to admire the piece for what it is. Thanks for posting.

[loco_engr]

Welcome to the CSP forum loco_engr. I'm always fascinated by the ways in which those who came before us chose to modify, and personalize, what were at the time inexpensive surplus guns. Possibly one of our more knowledgeable members will be able to tell us whether your receiver and barrel began life as a rifle or carbine. The workman clearly wanted better sights. Whether this was for hunting or target shooting we may never know, but if this was originally a full length rifle it wouldn't seem to make much sense to cut it down to carbine length for target shooting. I'm curious to know how the bore is and, most importantly, how it shoots.

All in all, it's a neat looking little gun. A skilled smith could redo the filling of the rear sight holes so as to be virtually unnoticeable. When you say the forearm doesn't appear to be original, are you referring only to the checkering or does the wood appear to be spliced? The fact that the prior owner scratched his social security number into the butt plate adds some interest. I for one would enjoy seeing more pictures, just to admire the piece for what it is. Thanks for posting.

From what I have seen, the forearms all had a grove. It looks like the forearm was sanded down to remove the grove before it was checkered. The ssn was my grandfathers. I have shot it app. 23 times, hence the partial 17 count box of ammo. Still has the buttery smooth action. According to research I have done, the s/n falls within the range of carbines, 24709-35792

[psteinmayer]

From what I can see, the front sight post appears to be an original installation, although we would need to see a close-up of it's attachment to know for sure if it was Springfield Armory work or not (indicating a possible cutoff barrel). Likewise, the stock appears to be a modified carbine stock. If it is a true carbine (and my guess would be it is), there is a possibility of returning it to military condition, but it is an expensive undertaking. Stocks ain't cheap, nor are carbine rear sights. Still, it could prove to be a great shooter as-is to someone who wanted a sporter for hunting or range fun!

[IditarodJoe]

If it were my grandfather's rifle, I'd never part with it! Possibly get the area of the rear sight holes redone. Then shoot it, enjoy it, care for it, and eventually pass it on to a younger family member. JMHO

[loco_engr]

I have 2 daughters, neither have any interest in it and I'd rather try to sell it myself and get a far price instead of leaving them the burden of dealing with low balling individuals.

[loco_engr]

35170

[Dick Hosmer]

Uhhh - so far as the "low-balling individual" comment is concerned - you need to realize that you have, in the eyes of 99% of the collecting world, 'damaged goods'. I do not mean to be hurtful, or rude, just realistic, but, the work done (innocently, as a proud owner) to the gun has deeply damaged its' value.

A great many Krags have a similar history, since they were available at extremely low cost, and made excellent hunting rifles.

Do your daughters have children? I'd think long and hard before passing off a family keepsake for the measly sum you will obtain - once gone, you can never get it back.

Just my $.02 - based on 45+ years of serious collecting.

[loco_engr]

I appreciate your honesty. What's your take on the front sight, original or replacement? Thank You

[Dick Hosmer]

Blade definitely aftermarket - base inconclusive from angle presented. Need to see interface between base and barrel - so - that means an angle view down from the top. FWIW, it LOOKS OK from the side, but cannot be sure.

[loco_engr]

Any of these help?
35175351763517735178

[Dick Hosmer]

Not quite the angle, or the detail/close-up, that I was hoping for, but, that looks to most likely be correct. If it isn't, it is certainly quite well done.

[loco_engr]

Care to post a pic of your front sight?

[butlersrangers]

'loco_engr' - Enlarged and brightened, your front-sight base appears correct for a Krag carbine barrel. The Blade, as others have said, is a commercial replacement. (I have brightened your photo and supplied a photo of my 1899 carbine front-sight for comparison).

3517935180

[loco_engr]

Question: Did the 1896 Springfield Armory Krag Carbine have any cartouches on the stock?

[loco_engr]

Appreciate your post, but mine is an Model 1896

[Rick the Librarian]

Yes, 1896 carbines had inspection stamps.

I could see some individual who couldn't afford a original 1896 going for your carbine. Heck, a few years ago, until I did find a "real" 1896, I might have been interested myself.

You can take Dick Hosmer's comments and opinions to the bank!!

[loco_engr]

Actually the word Model is not there, just 1896 Springfield Armory

[loco_engr]

3518235184

[loco_engr]

Where would they be and what do they look like? Thanks

[Dick Hosmer]

Model 1896 Carbines are found with three different markings: "1895", "1896", and "Model 1896". All occur in the same place on the receiver. The least common of the three is the plain "1896".

Those marked "1895" have some small physical differences to the bolt and extractor, while the "1896" and "Model 1896" marked arms are basically identical to each other.

The word "Model" was added at around 37100, however, they were running rifles at that time - the known plain "1896" carbines occur in the 32,000 - 34,000 range.

[IditarodJoe]

The rifles I've seen are marked on the left side of the stock aft of the trigger. Typically the marking would be "J.S.A." in script letters over the year of production, all inside a rectangular box with beveled corners. I'm guessing your carbine would have been marked the same way.

[loco_engr]

Thanks for your response. I don't see any markings on the stock. The barrel band has an "U" and that is the only markings I see, not counting
the 1896 . . .

[IditarodJoe]

That doesn't surprise me. It seems your grandfather was interested in fixing up the rifle for shooting rather than collecting. To me, that makes it much more personal. (Are you sure you don't have any uncles or aunts or nephews or nieces who would like to keep it in the family? :icon_confused:)

[loco_engr]

Hard to find evidence that it was my Grandfather that he was the one that modified this carbine! Plz respect that!

[butlersrangers]

'loco_engr' - If your stock lacks an 'Acceptance Cartouche', it was either sanded heavily and is no longer visible or the stock was replaced, at the Armory or in the Field. Replacement stocks did not require the 'Cartouche'.

The front sight base on an 1896 carbine barrel and on an 1899 carbine barrel will appear the same. The Blades may be different heights, (depending on which carbine rear sight was last employed). All U.S. Krag carbines have 22 inch barrels and identical contours.

FWIW - I don't believe anyone has been disrespectful regarding your grandfather. Back in the 1920s and 1930s Krags could be bought for $1.50. There was no dishonor in altering a Krag to make it more convenient for 'Hunting'.

BTW - The 'peep' sight on your Krag is a Redfield #102-K (earlier ones are marked 'Western'). These are referred to as 'No-Drill Sights', because they used an extra long side-plate screw and the magazine cut-off lever hole as mounting points. No new holes were required.

Does your 1896 carbine stock have a 'carbine sling-bar' or evidence of the inletting having been filled? If not, it is a later replacement stock (around 1900) that dispensed with this feature to bring the 1896 carbine more in line with the model 1899 carbine.

35238

[butlersrangers]

'loco_engr' - Looking at your first photos again, your altered Krag carbine stock is the replacement (circa 1900) 'long-forearm' type. These were replacement stocks, similar to the 1899 carbine stock and would lack a 'cartouche' and carbine sling-bar. They use the same barrel-band and longer hand-guards that were used on the model 1899 carbines.

35239

[loco_engr]

Appreciate your input. About the 'carbine sling-bar', I do not see anything on the stock for any thing that might have been inletted, not counting around the barrel band for the locking bar (not sure of the correct name). I'd appreciate a pic of what you are referring too. The peep sight does have "Western" on it.

[butlersrangers]

Look back one page at my post on page 3. I posted a photo of the 1896 stock 'sling-bar'.

Your stock has been 'sportered' from a later 'long forearm' carbine replacement stock, (circa 1900), and did not have a 'sling-bar', because the cavalry had gone to a saddle scabbard. There was no need for it to receive a 'cartouche stamp', because it was already accepted into service.

In the early 1900s some model 1896 carbines were 'updated' to look more like model 1899 carbines (photo).

(p.s. The main difference between rebuilt '96 carbines and model 1899 carbines is the '1896' action and the stock cut for its bolt-handle).

35241

[butlersrangers]

IMHO: Your carbine 'morphed' - to summarize: The OP's Krag carbine started life as an 1896 carbine (photo #1).

It was updated in the early 1900s with a 'long forearm' 1896 carbine replacement stock (photo#2).

In the 1920s or 1930s it was 'sportered' for Hunting. The stock was thinned and 'checkered', the rear-
sight and hand-guard were removed. The Western 'peep' sight and commercial front-blade were put on (photo #3).


352423524335244

[loco_engr]

Yep! Can't argue with that. So not so much a collectable, but a dang good shooter.
Long time ago, while shooting at one of those orange sticky backed circles, app 31/4 inches diameter, standing, app. 25 yards, put a rd app. 1" inside at 10 o'clock.

[loco_engr]

I appreciate everyones help & input.
I'd be interested what would be a fair price to ask, 2 boxes of ammo included.
Thanks All

[butlersrangers]

IMHO - Around $500 - parts value.

[loco_engr]

Thank You

[Dick Hosmer]

IMHO - Around $500 - parts value.

That's a LOT of money (IMHO) for what one would be getting, Chuck, even though I know you have a personal soft spot for Krag sporters.

[butlersrangers]

You are probably correct, Dick. I was considering the 'Western' No Drill Sight worth $100, $30 for two boxes of ammo, and a 1896 carbine barrel & action worthy of possible restoration @ around $370. (We all know what a 'Money Pit' that is)!