View Full Version : Bolt Hard To Close 03-A3
A friend bought a 03-A3 yesterday. He shot it this morning and had difficulties with the bolt. The bolt is hard to close, like it wants to hang up and needs several attempts or a rather stiff push or hard thrust to close. Rifle is like new. Doubt it has had more than 50 rounds though it. Will post pictures latter. Best guesses as to the problem. We do not see and shiny spots or scoring on the bolt that would give us a starting point as to the problem.
Major Tom
04-14-2016, 12:33
My o3A3 does the same thing, but, not 100% of the time. I just thought it was the brass differences. I handload and full lenght size all my 30-06 brass. In my case there were no shiny marks or other marks on the brass. All loads are mild.
I have had similar problems with some Greek ammo we were issued at a local Garand/Springfield match. Never had problems with my loads in Winchester brass.
Parashooter
04-14-2016, 12:41
Look at the front face of the extractor. You will see a small bevel that allows it to snap over a chambered cartridge's rim. The finish and angle of that bevel can often be improved with a little careful work using a fine round abrasive stone (manually or very cautiously in a "Dremel" tool). This may ease the problem when cartridges are single-loaded directly into the chamber.
If the hang-up occurs when cartridges are fed from the magazine, smoothing/deburring the inside edge of the extractor hook may help feeding, as can polishing bolt face and feed rails.
If the problem happens even when closing the bolt with empty mag and chamber, check condition and function of the bolt sleeve lock and the point it contacts on the receiver bridge. Wear (or stacked tolerances) here can prevent the lock from camming in far enough to uncouple the sleeve fully from the bolt.
A more detailed description of the malady could aid diagnosis. Does the handle turn part-way then jam or not turn at all? Is the chamber being directly single-loaded or fed from the magazine? Factory ammo or handloads? Headspace checked? Chamber thoroughly cleaned or maybe has some hidden debris? Do fired cases appear normal or have odd dents/scratches?
I have had similar problems with some Greek ammo we were issued at a local Garand/Springfield match. Never had problems with my loads in Winchester brass.
Lot 1156- HXP - 70. Rounds from this lot have been found to be a bit tight in my GI bolt rifles, but still usable. Nothing noticeable in the M-1's. In my custom barreled A3 & M1917 sporters it is useless as those guns have been purposely chambered on the short side of spec. FL resized and trimmed, it works fine in the sporters.
A friend bought a 03-A3 yesterday. He shot it this morning and had difficulties with the bolt. The bolt is hard to close, like it wants to hang up and needs several attempts or a rather stiff push or hard thrust to close. Rifle is like new. Doubt it has had more than 50 rounds though it. Will post pictures latter. Best guesses as to the problem. We do not see and shiny spots or scoring on the bolt that would give us a starting point as to the problem.
The problem is only in the closing of the bolt on a live round, but not on the extraction of a fired casing?
Look at the front face of the extractor. You will see a small bevel that allows it to snap over a chambered cartridge's rim. The finish and angle of that bevel can often be improved with a little careful work using a fine round abrasive stone (manually or very cautiously in a "Dremel" tool). This may ease the problem when cartridges are single-loaded directly into the chamber.
If the hang-up occurs when cartridges are fed from the magazine, smoothing/deburring the inside edge of the extractor hook may help feeding, as can polishing bolt face and feed rails.
If the problem happens even when closing the bolt with empty mag and chamber, check condition and function of the bolt sleeve lock and the point it contacts on the receiver bridge. Wear (or stacked tolerances) here can prevent the lock from camming in far enough to uncouple the sleeve fully from the bolt.
A more detailed description of the malady could aid diagnosis. Does the handle turn part-way then jam or not turn at all? Is the chamber being directly single-loaded or fed from the magazine? Factory ammo or handloads? Headspace checked? Chamber thoroughly cleaned or maybe has some hidden debris? Do fired cases appear normal or have odd dents/scratches?
The problem is only in the closing of the bolt on a live round, but not on the extraction of a fired casing?
Only when attempting to close the bolt on a round fed from the magazine.
IditarodJoe
04-14-2016, 05:23
Weak follower spring or improperly installed follower?
I'd take the guts out of the bolt and try to feed a live round from the mag. If it still hangs up, take off the extractor and try again. You should be able to narrow down the problem that way.
Mike
m1903rifle
04-14-2016, 08:59
Is it short chambered? Have you checked the head space?
Parashooter
04-14-2016, 09:25
Does the handle turn part-way then jam - or not turn at all? Factory ammo or handloads? Headspace checked? Chamber thoroughly cleaned or maybe has some hidden debris? Do fired cases appear normal or have odd dents/scratches?
Without answers to these questions it's pretty much impossible to offer more than guesses.
Does the handle turn part-way then jam - or not turn at all? Factory ammo or handloads? Headspace checked? Chamber thoroughly cleaned or maybe has some hidden debris? Do fired cases appear normal or have odd dents/scratches?
Without answers to these questions it's pretty much impossible to offer more than guesses.
It is catching before it even picks up a round from the magazine. Initial push (I guess it would be called) of the bolt before it has traveled a 1/2 inch. Once it starts to feed the round everything works as advertised. Bolt closes fine and it extracts just fine. All rounds in a six inch bull at 100 yards on the initial range period. This is the rifle: http://www.jouster.com/forums/showthread.php?58045-Remington-1903-A3-NIB
Major Tom
04-15-2016, 05:56
I still believe the problem is the ammo itself. After checking, I did find that the Greek ammo was the culprit.
IditarodJoe
04-15-2016, 06:38
Only when attempting to close the bolt on a round fed from the magazine.
It is catching before it even picks up a round from the magazine. Initial push (I guess it would be called) of the bolt before it has traveled a 1/2 inch.
This isn't entirely clear. Does the hangup happen even when the magazine is empty? When there are cartridges in the magazine but before the bolt contacts the case head? After the bolt contacts the case head? Does it happen on all five rounds from a full magazine?
Put a snap cap in the magazine and watch carefully as you slowly slide the open bolt back and forth through that first half inch. Can you see where the bolt may be binding? Does the ejector move freely. Can you easily slide the snap cap forward toward the chamber with your finger?
Allen Humphrey
04-15-2016, 07:54
If I'm understanding your issue correctly, then I have an Remington A3 that does the same thing. Any lateral force on the bolt at all, makes it "stick" at the beginning of the bolt throw. If you push directly in line with the bore it will run pretty well. Ultimately I swapped bolts until I found one the ran better than others. It is a 03 double heat treat bolt. Still isn't perfect however. I really suspect that my rifle is a little out of spec somewhere. It is a fine shooter otherwise.
psteinmayer
04-15-2016, 09:11
I just purchased a Remington 03A3 that seems to hang up a little also (Guess I'm just used to the buttery smooth Krag bolt). Like Allen above, I find that it moves somewhat jerky/sticky unless I am very straight with it. I used some white lithium grease (ala Garand lubrication) on some of the sliding parts, and that seemed to help some.
The smoothness of the bolt is one of the areas where the Krag has it over Mauser designs in spades!!!
"...Rifle is like new..." That mean it's recently built/assembled?
"...Best guesses..." Like m1903rifle says, it's bad headspace or bad ammo. Bad headspace may be caused by the chamber not being finish reamed correctly.
Bad ammo will be determined by what ammo it is. Isn't as likely as bad headspace though.
Check both before you start doing anything else.
[QUOTE=IditarodJoe;453860]This isn't entirely clear. Does the hangup happen even when the magazine is empty? When there are cartridges in the magazine but before the bolt contacts the case head? After the bolt contacts the case head? Does it happen on all five rounds from a full magazine?
QUOTE]
What isn't clear? I wrote that it tries to hang up as the bolt starts forward. It hangs up in the first 1/2 inch of movement, before it contacts the case in the magazine. What in the first 1/2 inch of movement is liable to make the bolt hang up?
"...Rifle is like new..." That mean it's recently built/assembled?
"...Best guesses..." Like m1903rifle says, it's bad headspace or bad ammo. Bad headspace may be caused by the chamber not being finish reamed correctly.
Bad ammo will be determined by what ammo it is. Isn't as likely as bad headspace though.
Check both before you start doing anything else.
"Rifle is like new" means just as it came from the factory. No this isn't a recent build.
Headspacing and bad ammo are not the causes. This is happening in the first 1/2 inch of the bolt going forward. Once past there it is smooth and flawless in operation.
chuckindenver
04-15-2016, 01:13
indexing can be an issue.
if the extractor cut is off a bit, it will drag on the extractor and or bolt.
try removing the extractor, no round..and see how well it works, if it works smoothly, then install the extractor and check again..hangs up?
the extractor cut may have a bur or be off a bit
IditarodJoe
04-15-2016, 02:57
I think I understand usmc69, and I get your frustration. I've been sitting here working with two 03A3s trying to figure out what might be causing the hangup you describe
Starting with the bolt all the way back, during that first half inch of forward travel there are three points of contact: (1) where the guides in the receiver bridge contact the locking lug on the left and (2) the locking lug & sides of the extractor on the right, and (3) where the bottom of bolt rides on the receiver. (I'm assuming these points where metal slides on metal are well greased, right?) Unless the extractor is out of spec or misaligned, it would seem to have to be a minor dimensional issue with either the receiver or the bolt (or both).
Unless . . . hmmm, about a half inch into its forward travel but just before the bolt face contacts a case head, ejector passes into a slot in the left locking lug. Watch as you slowly close the bolt and see if that's possibly the point at which the hangup is occurring. Is that slot clear? (Chuck, would it possibly be that the ejector blade is a bit too long?)
Could be the extractor COLLAR causing the binding.
I've had to tighten quite a few over the years, due to the collars "compressing" a bit as it passes under the bridge of the receiver.
When Bubba removes this collar, it almost NEVER gets re-installed correctly! --Jim
PhillipM
04-16-2016, 01:08
Could be the extractor COLLAR causing the binding.
I've had to tighten quite a few over the years, due to the collars "compressing" a bit as it passes under the bridge of the receiver.
When Bubba removes this collar, it almost NEVER gets re-installed correctly! --Jim
I did that once. Bolt would not close.
Same here on the extractor collar, but most likely out-of-round. The extractor can also cause a similar drag as you proceed forward and it is passing through the rear ring. There is usually a bow in the tail of the extractor and these will sometimes drag.
Here is the easiest way without any special tools. Take a black felt marker and blacked the extractor collar, run the bolt a few times and the high points will show and usually reveal where it is out of round. Remove the extractor and gently expand the collar just enough to get the tip of a small (1/8 in wide blade) screwdriver under the edge of the "low spots". Using a pair of slip joint pliers gently compress the collar until the collar is round again, may take a couple times. Makes a big difference in bolt operation (and a rapid fire). Clean thoroughly under the collar and add a couple drops of oil before reinstalling the extractor. A properly fit collar will not bind during bolt operation and will not have any rotational drag either.
Let me know if this helps
Viking Guy
04-17-2016, 09:00
I once had an ejector that gave me the same problem. It turned out when I swapped it and the pin with a spare, the problem went away. I never could see anything on the faulty ejector or pin but I could feel a binding. I'd suggest removing the ejector and running the bolt back and forth to see if that fixes your issue. Easy to do and only takes a minute and will eliminate or confirm one more component.
VG
Darreld Walton
04-26-2016, 06:37
USMC69, when my rifles have done this, it's usually because some hammer mechanic stretched the extractor collar when he/she installed it, increasing the length, and dragging in the bore of the receiver. It also has the effect of making the extractor itself drag on the wall of the receiver. If it's there, you'll quickly notice that the extractor is scuffed.
I'd wager that is where your problem lies.
A related question; what's the best way to remove an extractor collar and replace without stretching or buggering the collar? I just bought an SC barreled action with a jewelled bolt collar and extractor. Fortunately the bolt body finish wasn't messed with. The jewelling is deep enough that I'll need to polish it out prior to sandblasting for reparkerizing. I'll need to take the collar off to clean it up and may even need to replace the collar if it doesn't come out OK.
Parashooter
04-26-2016, 05:11
A related question; what's the best way to remove an extractor collar and replace without stretching or buggering the collar?
Here's how they did it at Springfield in 1917 -
http://i62.tinypic.com/u69p2.jpg
I imagine one could accomplish the same with propane torch and appropriate pliers.
oldtirediron
04-28-2016, 09:33
Further thought's on this matter--I have worked on many 1903 series rifles over the years that the bolts felt sticky or had resistance on closing--After being befuddled and got tired of swapping parts with no avail, I unscrewed the barrels--most of the rifles had barrels that were over torqued, in other words,when the barrel was screwed into the receiver the barrel did not qualify properly-- usually whomever put the barrel on did not properly fit it before tightening it. On the barrel cone the barrel has a heavy scratch on it where the front edge of the bolt lug was hitting it--So after refitting the barrel-- by turning the barrel shoulder back on the lathe, and buffing the rear barrel cone down to remove the scratch, the rifles worked properly. Some of the barrels were screwed into the receivers by whomever and were screwed in so tight, I needed a six foot extension bar to unscrew the receiver from the barrel--I have never torqued a Springfield barrel on with anything over 60 lbs of Torque and never had one come loose in over 40 years of working on them-- After removing the barrels and re-fitting them, every action was smooth as silk, ever the 1903A3's Another commonality was people putting early 1903 SHT bolts,to make the action slicker-But not a smart thing to do--
I agree with you some if these barrels are so tight a huge gorrellia I suspect did it. I have one now that is extremely tight. But on your opinion of the early bolts they where never deemed dangerous. You can use early bolts no problem just the early receivers.
holdover
04-29-2016, 08:25
Ditto..."Is it short chambered? Have you checked the head space?" New rifle to you, I would check headspace, especially if it happened with different ammo all sized correctly.
A friend bought a 03-A3 yesterday. He shot it this morning and had difficulties with the bolt. The bolt is hard to close, like it wants to hang up and needs several attempts or a rather stiff push or hard thrust to close. Rifle is like new. Doubt it has had more than 50 rounds though it. Will post pictures latter. Best guesses as to the problem. We do not see and shiny spots or scoring on the bolt that would give us a starting point as to the problem.
The Mauser was a control feed; the Springfield was supposed to be a push feed and control of sorts. A smith built 4 magnificent wildcats using 03 type receivers. He went to the range and had 5 case head separations out of the first 10 attempts at fire forming. I would have formed first then fired; I suggested I could have made an alteration to the receivers before he left for the range that would have allowed him to use control feed or I could have met him at the range to make a slight change. After forming case head separation was not going to happen unless he mindlessly sized his cases with total disregard for the length of the chamber.
F. Guffey
Richard H Brown Jr
05-15-2016, 12:32
Perform these tests:
I. Unscrew the Firing Pin Assy from the bolt body and try feeding a snap cap or a GI dummy round from the magazine. If it still sticks in the first 1/2in of travel it's not the Firing Pin Assy. If it is, try replacing the safety collar and firing pin sleeve, one at a time to see if the problem goes away.
2. If the bolt body sticks with the Firing Pin assy removed. it's either the ejector groove on the left locking lug, the extractor or the extractor collar. Check to see that there isn't a burr in the ejector groove, or remove the extractor and try feeding a snap cap from the magazine with the extractor removed. To avoid messing with that gosh darned extractor collar, try a different bolt body (with and without the extractor mounted).
3. If all those parts seem to be ok. The ejector and the ejector pin are the next culprits to investigate. Remove the rifled barrel assy from the stock and try the feed with the assembled bolt, the bolt body (w/extractor), the bolt body (w/o extractor). Remove the ejector and ejector pin and inspect for burrs on the ejector and the ejector pin straightness. Repeat the chambering of a snap cap or dummy round with the complete bolt, the bolt less the firing pin assy, and finally without the extractor mounted on the collar. Since the rifle is out of the stock the follower and magazine spring and the trigger guard/magazine well and associated bits aren't attache to the receiver, and you can't check them. Reassemble the rifle without the ejector and ejector pin and repeat the chambering tests of the complete bolt, the bolt body w/extractor, and the bolt body less the extractor.
4. If all those tests done locate the problem, only the follower and magazine spring remain as the possible culprit(s).
I personally am holding out for either the ejector, ejector spring, the ejector groove in the bolt body, or the extractor.
Course to really identify the problem, you need another 1903 WITHOUT this problem to test the bolt body, assembled bolt, extractor in. Another trip to the local gun pushers is in order. 8*)
RHB
Parashooter
05-15-2016, 06:30
. . . I personally am holding out for either the ejector, ejector spring, the ejector groove in the bolt body, or the extractor. . .
Do please tell us where to find the "ejector spring" on a US M1903 or 03-A3.
PhillipM
05-16-2016, 03:31
Do please tell us where to find the "ejector spring" on a US M1903 or 03-A3.
Beat me to that one. It's why stripper clips have rounded corners.
Richard H Brown Jr
05-17-2016, 01:28
Oops!
Sorry, suffered a "senior moment. I meant the Ejector, or Ejector Pin (some people call it the ejector pivot pin). I wrote that at around 2am, cause I had the "Sleep? What is this 'SLEEP' you talk of?".
RHB
I have no ideal what it would be like not having another bolt for a Mauser or Springfield and then there is the M1917. I have no fewer than 40 Springfield 03A3 bolts; I also have test bolts for the Springfield 03 type rifle.
Most claim it is better to order a bucket of bolts just in case the length of the chamber is off from the shoulder of the chamber to the bolt face. When ordering a bucket of bolts make sure the person you are ordering from can tell you if he is sending the correct one to off set the length of the chamber.
Short on bolts? I started on a Swedish 6.5mm55 only to find I have no bolt.
F. Guffey
I have been looking for a bolt for a 6.5mm55 rifle, I do not need more bolts but on Sunday afternoon I drove west for about 40 miles to pick up parts. The most important part was a receiver for an Argentine 91 with bolt and trigger guard. While sorting through receivers and bolts I found myself in worst shape than when I started. I am now the owner of two Chilean 35 Caliber Mausers; with no shotgun barrels.
Anyhow; while trying to put something together I dug out 4 Springfield 03 and 03A3 rifles and 20 Springfield bolts. I started with a 1911 Rock Island 03; I also used an Arsenal test bolt. The test bolt is for later Springfield rifles, the test bolt would not close. Then I found variations with the thickness of the third lug, a few of the lugs on the replacement bolts were too thick when the lug passed through the rear receiver ring.
And then I found a complete 03A3 bolt without a rifle; I do not know if I assembled it out of parts or I put a rifle up without the bolt. Anyhow, the only problem I have ever had when the bolt has resistance when traveling the first 1 1/2 inches was caused by the case being feed up and in front of the bolt face with the rim behind the extractor groove. Normally when that happens there are scratches on the case body.
Many parade/drill rifles were welded in various places.
F. Guffey
The OP pointed out that the problem occurs before the bolt starts to pick up a cartridge, so that narrows the problem to extractor collar, extractor or ejector/ ejector pin. Other than my previous post if the ejector pin is driven in solid it will offer noticeable resistance to pivot the ejector.
The OP pointed out that the problem occurs before the bolt starts to pick up a cartridge, so that narrows the problem to extractor collar, extractor or ejector/ ejector pin. Other than my previous post if the ejector pin is driven in solid it will offer noticeable resistance to pivot the ejector.
Randy, what do you want? Do you want attention or do you want credit for the total amount of effort and time other members have contributed. I have access to at least 10 O3A4s that are being built from DP rifles. If there is a problem the problem is found long before the rifle is assembled.
To determine what the problem is my opinion is disassemble the rifle, remove the trigger guard and then chamber a test round. I am sure someone has covered that one but just in case I did not want to miss you.
F. Guffey
IditarodJoe
05-21-2016, 11:31
usmc69 - Any progress on this issue? I for one would really like to know what the problem turned out to be. Thanks. :hello:
Randy, what do you want? Do you want attention or do you want credit for the total amount of effort and time other members have contributed. I have access to at least 10 O3A4s that are being built from DP rifles. If there is a problem the problem is found long before the rifle is assembled.
To determine what the problem is my opinion is disassemble the rifle, remove the trigger guard and then chamber a test round. I am sure someone has covered that one but just in case I did not want to miss you.
F. Guffey
These forums are not about credit, they're about helping others. Many folks on here have experienced issues and may be able to shed light on the problems others ask about. I'm not exactly sure what anyone has done to you, but would recommend you re-read OP's description before flaming others with legitimate suggestions. Once again, he explained that the problem is within the first 1/2 inch of bolt movement.
These forums are not about credit, they're about helping others..
Once again, he explained that the problem is within the first 1/2 inch of bolt movement.
I do not believe it was all that clear in the beginning and I would take a wild guess he said 1/2 inch quite a few times before anyone caught on. So you were not taking credit and you do not want my attention, to be honest I do not appreciate your attention.
Once again; take the rifle apart and start over, start with a case without a primer, case and bullet only. Then start adding parts. Many receivers were welded; I am not that far from a gun shop that has 4 magnificent 03 receivers for sale for $200.00 each; all 4 were welded in at least three places and look new..
F. Guffey
I do not believe it was all that clear in the beginning and I would take a wild guess he said 1/2 inch quite a few times before anyone caught on. So you were not taking credit and you do not want my attention, to be honest I do not appreciate your attention.
Once again; take the rifle apart and start over, start with a case without a primer, case and bullet only. Then start adding parts. Many receivers were welded; I am not that far from a gun shop that has 4 magnificent 03 receivers for sale for $200.00 each; all 4 were welded in at least three places and look new..
F. Guffey
I was aware of the "1/2" in the first post he mentioned it. Why? Because I'm looking for clues to determine what can be eliminated and thus keep confusion down. Many times these issues come up with people that don't touch and feel these particular guns everyday and they can't state the problem in a manor that cuts out some of the general possibilities. It is best to ask these people a list of questions early on to narrow down the problem for our own information or for others to make valid suggestions. It's not about credit with Randy A, or I missed that.
I will also say that I have never seen a DP receiver that was welded in 3 places that looked brand new. I have seen few receivers that look brand new welds or not. And I don't know that I've seen one welded in "3" places, usually 2. If you choose to advertise those Magnificent receivers, I would take it to the buy and sell section, maybe Sothebys being rather rare imho.
I was aware of the "1/2" in the first post he mentioned it. Why? Because I'm looking for clues to determine what can be eliminated and thus keep confusion down. Many times these issues come up with people that don't touch and feel these particular guns everyday and they can't state the problem in a manor that cuts out some of the general possibilities. It is best to ask these people a list of questions early on to narrow down the problem for our own information or for others to make valid suggestions. It's not about credit with Randy A, or I missed that.
I will also say that I have never seen a DP receiver that was welded in 3 places that looked brand new. I have seen few receivers that look brand new welds or not. And I don't know that I've seen one welded in "3" places, usually 2. If you choose to advertise those Magnificent receivers, I would take it to the buy and sell section, maybe Sothebys being rather rare imho.
You seem a little hard on yourself;
It is best to ask these people a list of questions early on to narrow down the problem for our own information or for others to make valid suggestions. "These people?" I will ask you if you have even seen a receiver welded to the barrel? If so that would make one place; and then I will ask you if you have ever seen the bolt stop welded to the receiver? Again; if so, that would be two. And then there is the bolt face, I have bolts that have the bolt face welded, meaning there is no hole in the face of the bolt for the firing pin.
And then? I have seen bolts welded to the receiver. And then there was a member that informed me 'it" did not exist because he had never seen one. I posted a picture of 4 of them (its?) and he did not say thank you.
The 4 03 receivers are low number receivers. The same shop that has the 03 receivers has 6 P14s and M1917 receivers. The big problem with available receivers is the lack of barrels.
F. Guffey
You might want to edit again, two of your 3 welds have nothing to do with the OP's problem. One of the three, the bolt face weld is not a reciever weld and no, I have not seen a bolt welded to the reciever. I wouldn't say they don't exist, simply haven't seen one. And finally, I could care less what your shop has or lacks, it's not important to the question at hand.
Good day.
I could care less what your shop has or lacks, it's not important to the question at hand.
Forgive, it was not my intentions to confuse you,; it is not my shop. And I confused you again with the ‘looking new’. I assumed you understood the receivers used were DP 03s, I have no way of knowing how you came up with DP welded receivers that looked new because the barrels were removed. I thought through deductive reasoning you would figure it took hours of work to get those receivers to look good.
The owner did say it was not the receivers that were suspect but the difficulty in finding barrels.
F. Guffey
Well I'll agree, barrels are really hard to find.
That we can agree on, those hard to find barrels...especially in .303. I think there are still a few bolt stops floating around but am struggling to understand why one would weld that. "I will ask you if you have ever seen the bolt stop welded to the receiver? "
I don't know that I can forgive you for the confusion, You ask your shrink and I'll go find one and ask on my end. We'll compare.
That we can agree on, those hard to find barrels...especially in .303. I think there are still a few bolt stops floating around but am struggling to understand why one would weld that. "I will ask you if you have ever seen the bolt stop welded to the receiver? "
I don't know that I can forgive you for the confusion, You ask your shrink and I'll go find one and ask on my end. We'll compare.
Again, deductive reasoning; If a round could be chambered and the bolt face was welded someone could remove the bolt, chamber a round and then replace the bolt. So they made the DP rifle fool proof. In the beginning that did not happen with the P14s, they drilled a hole through the barrel ahead of the receiver. That made it possible to chamber a round' once they realized the mistake they installed a 5/16 steel rod through the hole and then welded it.
forgive you for the confusion
I had to be Mark Twain that suggested failing to forgive carries a lot if risk.
F. Guffey
IditarodJoe
05-24-2016, 09:41
I think there are still a few bolt stops floating around but am struggling to understand why one would weld that.
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y183/IditarodJoe/M1903%20SA/1903%20boltstop/1903%20bolt%20stop%20installation%2006_zps4x2r3yuq .jpg (http://s5.photobucket.com/user/IditarodJoe/media/M1903%20SA/1903%20boltstop/1903%20bolt%20stop%20installation%2006_zps4x2r3yuq .jpg.html)
Bolt stops are getting hard to find these days, and I can't imagine why someone would want to weld this part either. :icon_scratch:
A bolt stop is a small arm at the back of the receiver that was intended to keep the bolt from falling out during drills. I don't have any knowledge that those were welded. On the other hand, the magazine cut off switch was indeed welded which did keep the bolt from being removed as it couldn't be centered to that function. I do know about the rods, looked at one the other day as a matter of fact.
johnny l.
05-24-2016, 09:18
I thought the bolt stop was supposed to keep the bolt from moving forward, when loading the magazine with a stripper clip or loading a single round when the muzzle may get depressed. There are two indentations on the bottom of the left locking lug that the plunger (tit) on the bolt stop pushes up into when the bolt is to the rear. The spacing of the indentations coincides with the magazine cut off. Cut off in the "on" position keeps the bolt from being able to strip a round from the magazine. Cut off in the "off" position allows the bolt to go all the way to the rear, allowing a round to be stripped from the magazine. The indentation that the "tit" engages depends on the position of the cut off - on or off. The cut off also prevents the bolt from accidentally being removed. The bolt is removed by placing the cut off about half way between "off" and "on".
The bolt stop does not put very much pressure on the bolt, and is easy to over come. Back in the day, many match shooters would remove them anyway. The bolt stop was eliminated during WWll. Regards, Johnny Lawson
I thought the bolt stop was supposed to keep the bolt from moving forward, when loading the magazine with a stripper clip or loading a single round when the muzzle may get depressed. There are two indentations on the bottom of the left locking lug that the plunger (tit) on the bolt stop pushes up into when the bolt is to the rear. The spacing of the indentations coincides with the magazine cut off. Cut off in the "on" position keeps the bolt from being able to strip a round from the magazine. Cut off in the "off" position allows the bolt to go all the way to the rear, allowing a round to be stripped from the magazine. The indentation that the "tit" engages depends on the position of the cut off - on or off. The cut off also prevents the bolt from accidentally being removed. The bolt is removed by placing the cut off about half way between "off" and "on".
The bolt stop does not put very much pressure on the bolt, and is easy to over come. Back in the day, many match shooters would remove them anyway. The bolt stop was eliminated during WWll. Regards, Johnny Lawson
You are "almost" correct, Johnny, except . . . .
Cut-off in "ON" position, means magazine is ON, or capable of feeding.
Cut-off in "OFF" position, means magazine is OFF, or NOT capable of feeding. --Jim
Johnny,
"I thought the bolt stop was supposed to keep the bolt from moving forward, when loading the magazine"
You are correct, I did misspeak and should have said moving forward. I have read where it was for manual of arms maneuvers but the consensus indicates it was simply to keep the bolt back while loading. Either way, appreciate the reminder.
Kurt
johnny l.
05-25-2016, 04:11
JimF, As usual, you are correct. I got so busy remembering which bolt lug had the indentations that I got the "on-off" part goofed up. Thanks for the correction. Regards, Johnny Lawson
I have a Hoffer-Thompson .22, a Mark 1, and a A3. I enjoy them all. The Mark 1 is a blessed rifle. It is effortless to shoot and never misses. It seems to do all of the work, I just hold it and squeeze the trigger. The Hoffer-Thompson .22 gets a lot of attention. Folks are expecting the sound of a .30-06, and the .22 short really surprises them with its lack of noise. The only real problem is that you have to be very careful not to drop the aux. chamber on its nose. J.L.
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