Trapdoor Reloading

[bobgar]

Hello

I just bought a model 1877 carbine. I am looking at reloading my own ammo. Does anyone have some recipes for some MILD loads. I do not want to damage my investment.

Thank you

[Major Tom]

The correct bullet would be a soft lead 405 grain bullet. Black powder original load would be 60 grains of ff2 I believe. A fifty grain charge of BP should be mild. Just be sure when loading BP to leave NO air space between bullet and BP by using a filler of some sort where seating the bullet will compress the BP.

[Dick Hosmer]

In the interest of total accuracy, service carbine load was 55gr. Wads were used by Frankford Arsenal to fill the void, which IS an ABSOLUTE must.

Many years ago, Cream of Wheat was a popular alternate filler used by handloaders.

[Major Tom]

After looking over some of my loads using smokeless powder I found:
Pyrodex RS, same as ffg and 2f, 45 grains starting load.
Reloader 7, 35 grains
IMR SR 4759, 12-13 grains for a mild load at 1000 FPS
Again, using BP, I use dacron for a filler.

[11mm]

SR4749 should be good. The "normal" load for the full length rifle is 22.5 gr., so you may want to check that 12-13 grains is OK from various sources. I always use fiber fill stuffing over the powder to keep the powder in place, though that may not be necessary.

[bobgar]

Thanks for the reload information. I have another question the rear sight Buckhorn the ladder does not want to raise up is there some kind of "trick to it"

[Major Tom]

Uh, 4 pound lead mallet? 8-/

[bobgar]

Thanks Uncle Tom, the mallet did the trick.

[DRAGONFLYDF]

Hello

I just bought a model 1877 carbine. I am looking at reloading my own ammo. Does anyone have some recipes for some MILD loads. I do not want to damage my investment.

Thank you
If you don't want to damage your investment, shoot only black powder loads, it is what it was designed for. As Dick said, make sure the case is full and if you use less than a full case of powder, make up the difference with a spacer. Black powder and air space do not play well together.

[blackhawknj]

Black powder only in mine. Something very satisfying about that big cloud of white smoke. The complications of black powder cleaning are "greatly exaggerated". I use magnum rifle primers.

[PowderBurn]

Hello

I just bought a model 1877 carbine. I am looking at reloading my own ammo. Does anyone have some recipes for some MILD loads. I do not want to damage my investment.

Thank you

Here is a very good place to start-Loading Cartridges for the Original .45-70 Springfield Rifle and Carbine by J.S and Pat Wolf, 3rd edition. I bought the digital version from their website: Wolf's Western Traders. Happy Shooting!
Tim

[blackhawknj]

I recall reading-forget the authors of course-that they recommend slightly enlarging the flashholes, saying the originals were larger, and using magnum rifle primers, the originals burned hotter.
Regarding spacers or wadding, would crumpled up paper work ?

[Dick Hosmer]

I would not trust wadded-up paper. The space needs to be completely filled, and the powder should be slightly compressed. Originals used a stack of wads but then they had the facilities to produce same, uniformly and in large quantities. Some of the old-time civilian shooters reportedly used Cream of Wheat as a dense filler!

[Mark Daiute]

my carbine load is 22.5 grains 4759 under a soft 405 grain hollow based bullet.

[free1954]

my carbine load is 22.5 grains 4759 under a soft 405 grain hollow based bullet.



how much of the case does that load fill up?

[Mark Daiute]

how much of the case does that load fill up?

I haven't the foggiest notion. The powder is not position sensitive, not so's you would ever notice.

I WEIGH EVERY SINGLE CHARGE AND LOAD ONLY ONE CARTRIDGE AT A TIME.

This powder will, at times, bridge in the RCBS Uniflow.

This load should match the calibrations on your rear sight.

Keep us posted.

[crest117]

I shoot my 1873 Trapdoor often with a mild smokeless powder load and have had no problems. I use a 405 grain lead bullet from Hunter's Supply loaded over 32.5 grains of H4895. This load gives me about 5 inch groups at 100 yards and I'm sure it would do better if my eyesight was better. Note, the Trapdoor will shoot quite high at 100 yards. To correct this I made a taller front sight blade and then filed it down at the range until it was on at the 100 yards.

[butlersrangers]

Mark and 'Crest117' - Thanks for the 4759 and H4895 .45-70 carbine load suggestions.

Has anyone tried 'Foam Backer Rod' for wads in .45-70?

[Sportsdad60]

I was buying Powder River Cartridge Company low pressure loads for a couple years, about 160 rounds or so.

The owner was kind enough to give me their recipe.

I'm using the identical load since I've had very good results with it, and it chronos about 1300 fps (No idea on the pressure but it's low)

Accurate Power 5744- 26 grains. Laser cast Oregon 405gr bullet or Rimrock 405 gr bullet. (I have yet to load 500 gr but plan to with some black powder loads) Starline brass which I anneal after about 4 reloadings. A Winchester primer.

The AA5744 does a nice job of filling the case up, there is probably a 1/4" left of space between the base of the bullet. I've been told it's not as big of issue with modern powders measured for low pressure loads.

I visually inspect each powder load before the bullet is seated and weigh each cartridge as a final quality check.

Did you know that Starline brass is thicker walled than Winchester? And it weighs 25 grs more too. I've been meaning to validate this as the wall thickness on the lip is the same, I may cut one of each in half and measure.

I prefer to use an ultrasonic cleaner on the spent brass, followed up by low temp oven, and then lube/resize/decapping. Then a couple hours in corn cob media with a squirt of german Klasse AIO.

This picture is a reload from the previous owner who made his own bullets, apparently 500 grain. (Holy crimp Batman!) next to my first reload.

https://photos.smugmug.com/Reloading/i-Gnxc9dC/0/X2/20160508_105419-X2.jpg
https://photos.smugmug.com/Reloading/i-3JCWfTs/0/X2/20160508_104642-X2.jpg
https://photos.smugmug.com/Reloading/i-GqFhmQC/0/X2/20160508_114019-X2.jpg

[Mark Daiute]

Right now I'm on an idiot=proof no fuss no muss kick with my 1866 as well as my 45-70's

60 grains of WC 872 under the bullet dujour.

So far the 45-70 trapdoors like the 500 grain bullet best and the 1866 likes the 450 grain bullet the best

The first target is the results of the 500 grain bullet in the 45-70, 6:00 hold

35951

Second target is an 8:00 O'clock hold on the edge of the black/405 grain hollow based bullet.

The 405 grain load is very mild, lots of fun to shoot.

35952

These are 100 yard targets. The lube is my black powder lube which is mostly beeswax and olive oil. Magnum primers. There's just the littlest littl bit of bore trash with each shot, that I simply blow out of the chamber. Bout like you get with 5744 only less.

The results with the 50-70 are less precise but more accurate and point of aim is point of impact with the battle sight.

[mannparks]

how much of the case does that load fill up?

As I'm sure you know that filling the case statement is for Blackpowder only NOT ,(in capital letters) for any smokeless powder

Be safe and read

Charles

[Mark Daiute]

As I'm sure you know that filling the case statement is for Blackpowder only NOT ,(in capital letters) for any smokeless powder

Be safe and read

Charles

Not to muddy the waters BUT the thing I like about the 60 grains WC872 is that it is smokeless and it does fill the case. No signs of pressure at all. The rifles seem to love it. I am looking forward to getting to the range and letting those loads stretch their legs out to 2 and 3 hundred yards.

[free1954]

besides black powder, I've been using 34 grs. of imr 3031 and a 405 gr. 458 cast bullet for a while now. but I usually stand the rifle up after loading a lower volume smokeless charge.
MARK DAIUTE does all of the 60 gr. WC872 burn up or is there some left in the barrel?

[Mark Daiute]

besides black powder, I've been using 34 grs. of imr 3031 and a 405 gr. 458 cast bullet for a while now. but I usually stand the rifle up after loading a lower volume smokeless charge.
MARK DAIUTE does all of the 60 gr. WC872 burn up or is there some left in the barrel?

There's just the tiniest little bit of bore trash.

I've learned to open the breechblcock and let the case bump up against my finger while in the chamber, then I extract the case by hand and dump the trash out. That way I get 99 percent of the bore trash without it getting into the chamber or barrel. After 10 rounds or so I have less that a half teaspoon of trash.

I call it trash because it is not really unburned grains. The powder is shiny and black when loaded and the trash left in the case is kind of a dull greenish brown.

To my way of thinking dealing with the bore trash is a small price to pay for what I get from the powder in convenience and cost savings.

Your mileage may vary.

[free1954]

There's just the tiniest little bit of bore trash.

I've learned to open the breechblcock and let the case bump up against my finger while in the chamber, then I extract the case by hand and dump the trash out. That way I get 99 percent of the bore trash without it getting into the chamber or barrel. After 10 rounds or so I have less that a half teaspoon of trash.

I call it trash because it is not really unburned grains. The powder is shiny and black when loaded and the trash left in the case is kind of a dull greenish brown.

To my way of thinking dealing with the bore trash is a small price to pay for what I get from the powder in convenience and cost savings.

Your mileage may vary.





thanks for the reply.

[Sturwilh]

I assume any 45-70 brass can be used with black powder for the TD. Is this a a safe assumption??

[Tkacook]

Any brand will work.

TK

[Mark Daiute]

After looking over some of my loads using smokeless powder I found:
Pyrodex RS, same as ffg and 2f, 45 grains starting load.
Reloader 7, 35 grains
IMR SR 4759, 12-13 grains for a mild load at 1000 FPS
Again, using BP, I use dacron for a filler.

12-13 grains 4759 sounds fishy to me. I used 12-13 grains of Unique when I first started and it was a good load but you run the danger of a double charge. My favorite load is 22.5 grains 4759 and Lee's holly based 405 grain bullet. Works in rifle, cadet and presumably in Carbine. Still rund the chance of double charging, I am very carful with this. Keep us posted, OK?

[steelap]

In the interest of total accuracy, service carbine load was 55gr. Wads were used by Frankford Arsenal to fill the void, which IS an ABSOLUTE must.

Many years ago, Cream of Wheat was a popular alternate filler used by handloaders.

:icon_lol: Would grits work in the South? :evil6:

[Dick Hosmer]

All regional joking aside, how fine are dry grits? You want something at least as dense as the powder itself.

[11mm]

All regional joking aside, how fine are dry grits? You want something at least as dense as the powder itself.
Cream of wheat still works, and is still available, as is cornmeal, another "go-to" filler. That said, I find that 22.5 grs of SR4759 works well in several other military cartridges of the period which I shoot, but of course, you can't go wrong with black powder filled to the top, and even compressed.

[deadin]

I seem to remember hearing somewhere that adding 4 or 5 grains of a slow burning smokeless powder to a BP load would help keep the fouling down.
Now this sounds too much like a duplex load of sorts, which can get dangerous.
Would firing a mild smokeless load every so often during a BP session, help with the fouling? If so, what would be a good ratio?

Dean

[Major Tom]

I seem to remember hearing somewhere that adding 4 or 5 grains of a slow burning smokeless powder to a BP load would help keep the fouling down.
Now this sounds too much like a duplex load of sorts, which can get dangerous.
Would firing a mild smokeless load every so often during a BP session, help with the fouling? If so, what would be a good ratio?

Dean

Nah, part of the fun of firing BP is the cleaning of the gun. 8-)

[deadin]

The gun will still need cleaning at the end of the session. I was thinking more of clearing some fouling while at the range without having to carry cleaning supplies.
(Besides I don't think the traditional method of clearing fouling would be acceptable on many of today's ranges....:eek:)

[Major Tom]

When I'm at the range shooting BP, I have a plastic coffee can with water and Dawn detergent in it. I immediately put my fired brass in the solution till I get home. That stops the brass corrosion. After firing say 5-8 rounds, I dip a cleaning patch in the solution and run it in the bore a few times followed by dry patches.