Is this a USMC 1903 Receiver?

[MoMallard]

Pulling some clunker/parts guns out that I'd accumulated and happened to notice something for the first time. This RIA receiver had a punch mark in front of the serial. It also has a very small prick punch on the right receiver rail and a hatcher hole. I had taken this picture a while back just to document for the database, so don't have any more readily available without pulling out the camera. It's sitting in a log wood scant stock with an RIA 1919 barrel, Remington bolt, and so on. 35390

[louis]

Yep it sure is! Now what are you going to do with it?

[chuckindenver]

stock looks to be USMC as well

[cplnorton]

The one trait that still has me puzzled is the meaning of the punch mark in front of the serial. I can find documents to back up most of the Marine Traits, but I've never found anything on that punch mark yet. I've heard it say it was testing for the VB rifle grenade pre WWII, but you see it on 03A3's that out-date the VB by years and there is nothing in the Marine docs from WWII that show the Marines ever received any 03A3's other than the A4.

The one thing that really muddy's the water is the huge amount of swapping back and forth of 1903's between the Navy and the Marines in WWII and sometimes I've wondered if it didn't have a origin in the Navy or maybe it was used by both branches? As there seems to be some traits used by both.

I have 873388 that is a documented Marine 1903 to 1938, and it has the punch mark, but as I said you see rifles with it that that there is no evidence were in the Marines as well. And my 03 could have easily spent a tour in the Navy as well after the Marines. It was bought at the Philly Navy Yard.

Anyone ever find a document on that punch mark? That is one that has eluded me and I've been looking for it for a while. I would love to find something on that.

[louis]

Steve, there is a doc that has info about the punch mark if I remember correctly it's either Ed or John that has it. I know the Usmc had early Remington m1903's not sure about A3's.

[cplnorton]

Thanks Louis. I'm getting addicted to trying to find info on this stuff. You start reading some of these documents and it just changes everything you thought you knew. I would almost rather spend money sending a researcher to the archives than buy another firearm. Which is just sad. lol

But it's just so fascinating and interesting at the same time, because a lot is so different than what you read online or in books.

[louis]

So true!! I stopped collecting Usmc rifles because of the costs but there are a lot of not so Usmc rifles out there. I'm also interested in more research just haven't figured out where to start I have too many interests in the different time periods.

[pickax]

Here is a thread where we discussed my rifle with similar marking over on CMP forum. Steve and JB agreed on the USMC lineage.
http://forums.thecmp.org/showthread.php?t=184279&highlight=USMC+rifle

[louis]

Ok this is how I figure it. All these Usmc mods reduced the value of collecting 1903's. So I'll offer all of you a fantastic offer of $250 for each one l!! It's a great deal I won't hold out too long before I lower my offer to $175. Think about it. Hahahahaha!! A joke of course don't get upset and send me hate mail.

[lencac]

Talk about punch marks! Try this one on for size.
Any ideas?
354013540235403

[cplnorton]

Yeah I have no clue on the Remington. I've never seen another one, not that registers anyway.

[cplnorton]

The only idea I really have is, I've seen where companies would take random pieces off the line and check/test them. Maybe some random test piece where they checked a batch for hardness? That would be my honest best guess. But I have nothing to back it up.

[John Beard]

I have documentation firmly establishing that the punch mark in front of the serial number is a USMC trait. I am aware, however, that a few early Remington rifles also have a punch mark in front of the serial number. In those cases, the meaning of the punch mark is unknown.

But one final word of precaution. All it takes is a hammer, a punch, a strong arm, and nefarious intent to make the mark. So the punch mark is no conclusive indication of USMC issuance.

J.B.

[John Beard]

Pulling some clunker/parts guns out that I'd accumulated and happened to notice something for the first time. This RIA receiver had a punch mark in front of the serial. It also has a very small prick punch on the right receiver rail and a hatcher hole. I had taken this picture a while back just to document for the database, so don't have any more readily available without pulling out the camera. It's sitting in a log wood scant stock with an RIA 1919 barrel, Remington bolt, and so on. 35390

According to my notes, I inspected your rifle at the CMP on 11 Oct 2006 and recorded it as a USMC rifle. It had a different barrel in those days.

J.B.

[MoMallard]

Thanks John and everyone else. Guess at this point all I can do with it is say "yay, it's a USMC receiver". I had originally intended it for a sporter project since it had a tomato stake barrel and a hatcher hole and had lost it's "originality", but I don't want to bubba up a USMC receiver.

[John Beard]

Thanks John and everyone else. Guess at this point all I can do with it is say "yay, it's a USMC receiver". I had originally intended it for a sporter project since it had a tomato stake barrel and a hatcher hole and had lost it's "originality", but I don't want to bubba up a USMC receiver.

Do you have the original barrel that was in it when I inspected it at the CMP? Just curious.

J.B.

[MoMallard]

What was the barrel date from your notes? I didn't keep a lot of notes on some of the early guns I had. I may have gotten it from CMP South for parts/receivers. I still have every 03 I have bought, so it may be sitting on one of the early project guns. I recall changing one AV-19 barrel that I still have stashed somewhere.

[MoMallard]

Bet that was it. I looked at the AV-19 barrel and it has vice marks on it. D****it! I think I remember that gun now. I got it for the tight AV barrel to put on my CMP shooter and was going to use the receiver to built up a .257 Roberts deer rifle, since in my rookie opinion, the Hatcher hole ruined the receiver from a collector standpoint, and it was a "parts gun" so I wasn't doing anything bad. Heck, it even had one of those crappy, might be dangerous due to mfg process AV barrels that were derided! I put the barrel on a C stocked 924K receiver and shot it in some CMP matches. It shot great, but had a bad ring in the chamber that made extraction a pain in rapid. SO....later on, I sent that in to the CMP to build me a Vintage Sniper rifle with a brand new Criterion barrel. They pulled the rear sight sleeve and front sight sleeve for the Criterion. I have a stripped Marine AV barrel that they sent back.

This is a great example of how a rookie who had about a thimble full of 1903 knowledge took a verified USMC rifle and screwed it up because he didn't know what he had. After 10 years of haunting this and other sights, reading all things 03, and from associating with and emailing knowledgeable folk, I at least have a hatful of knowledge now. Enough to look back and wish for a time machine to go and slap an exuberant but stupid younger man who took something out of the collector world. Anybody got a Faberge egg they want me to smash?

[louis]

That's a good story. Can you take a few photos of that barrel and post them?

[MoMallard]

ARRRGGGHHHHH! It's getting worse. This discourse made me start trying to remember everything about that gun. It was a decade ago. I recalled a punch stippled butt plate that came back to my foggy memory from stripping that gun down. At the time, I didn't think twice about it. Just thought it was some bored GI thing. I don't have it now, as I remembered giving that stock to a buddy. I called him up, and yes. It had a stippled butt plate. God help me. I need a beer.

[louis]

Lol yep I agree

[MoMallard]

Louis: In response to your last post, here are some pics of the barrel and vise marks.

35485

[MoMallard]

AV Markings

35487

[louis]

Thanks for the photos. Interesting to look at. I'm a big Usmc collector so always interested in what people have.

[John Beard]

At the time I inspected your rifle at the CMP, it was fitted with an S.A./5-18 barrel.

J.B.