Magazine Rifle barrel

[5MadFarmers]

Warning big images....

Interested in opinions.

http://5madfarmers.com/images_2016/138.JPG

http://5madfarmers.com/images_2016/140.JPG

http://5madfarmers.com/images_2016/145.JPG

Don't out-think yourself. Just tell me what you think. Trust me you won't hurt my feelings... :)

[1mark]

The barrel looks to have been cut with a hacksaw and the crown is poor to say the least.

[Kragrifle]

I do not see evidence of the dove tailing that is done on standard issue Krag front sight posts .

[psteinmayer]

Looks to me like silver solder on that base... and I agree that the barrel looks like a hacksaw job.

[Dick Hosmer]

Lots of file marks on the sight base, too. One thing, it certainly doesn't appear to have been done recently, which begs the question of why the crudity if it is from "period of service". Field repair?

[5MadFarmers]

Lots of file marks on the sight base, too. One thing, it certainly doesn't appear to have been done recently, which begs the question of why the crudity if it is from "period of service". Field repair?

Exactly. It wasn't done recently but it's obviously done crudely. Looks brazed to me but I'm not a metal worker.

1930s maybe? The gun was used after that. The finish is gone and the entire thing has use wear. Doesn't show up clearly there but it's sporting dings on the end. Use dings. Dented end dings.

Why did they spend the effort? After cutting it an inch too long? Some people mystify me. Why not just install an '03 base? "Faked!" Nobody would pay for a fake Krag at that point in time. If it was more modern I could see that but there would be no value back then. Kind of like faking a Yugo right? What's the point? I've seen people have restored 1970s four door cars. I raise an eyebrow on that. "Ok, so you took a Pontiac Lemans, which was never anything to write home about, and spent a considerable about of time restoring it to a car that isn't anything to write home about. Why?" I'd have to assume they had an uncle. Who did this.

They wanted a carbine barrel. They made one. Maybe because at 30" it looked dorky. If it was 22" I'd say they cared more. It's 23" so they didn't. I fail to understand why they bothered.

When a gun comes up at auction sometimes it's good to see what's there instead of what's not. That one came up. "Um, that's a bad attempt at an M-1896 carbine. Totally bogus. Moving on."

I didn't. I bought it. Why? I wanted the receiver. 24110. One of the two I have which will be mock cadets. The extra parts that came with it were pretty much free given what it cost me. As an added bonus I get an early M-1896 bolt with the fixings.

Beats taking a perfectly good rifle and chopping it up.

I'd like to find it's twin. I need another.

[Dick Hosmer]

I wave the BULLS HIT flag, you little sneak!!!!! [GRIN]

Title of the thread was "Magazine Rifle Barrel", and nowhere - until the last post - did you advise it was not 30". I'm sure this misled a lot of people into making false assumptions. Of COURSE it doesn't look "right", even under the age.

[5MadFarmers]

I wave the BULLS HIT flag, you little sneak!!!!! [GRIN]

Title of the thread was "Magazine Rifle Barrel", and nowhere - until the last post - did you advise it was not 30". I'm sure this misled a lot of people into making false assumptions. Of COURSE it doesn't look "right", even under the age.

Well, it is a rifle barrel and 24110 is a Magazine Rifle number... :icon_lol:

Just a tad shorter than expected. I could call it a carbine barrel but it's a bit long. So truth in advertising as it were. "It's either a stretched carbine barrel or a shortened rifle barrel." I went with rifle.

The thing still kind of bugs me. I decided to put it away for a bit, after I bought it, and see if it bugged me less later. It doesn't.

So let's get back to those sling swivels on carbines. The thing about them that bugged me was they were Krag swivels. Where does Johnny Deer Hunter get Krag swivels and why does he bother? After-market ones are easier to get and cheaper to boot. So why Krag? "Because Johnny didn't do it" was the correct answer.

Which is why that one bugs me. It's a crudely done carbine length barrel. Except it's a bit long. Not "measure once cut once" but "somewhere about here." Didn't even bother measuring. Just "about here." Then took the time to do that sight work which, while not up to armory level, isn't quite the hack job people think. Crude, yes, but it'd be easier to just affix an aftermarket sight. So why bother?

Because the rest of it is carbine. Screwing in a rifle barrel is going to look stupid. That implies he had access to a rifle barrel but not a carbine barrel. Rifle barrels are easy to find. So why sacrifice a rifle? Why not? Everyone is cutting them down to carbine size. If you have a "carbine" with a shot out or bum barrel why not grind down a rifle one in the basement? Easier than sporterizing a rifle right?

The thing was a bundle of carbine parts. To include the M-1896 sight. Think about that. Somebody had a "carbine" sight. Not terribly common. Yet no access to a barrel? Where did they get the sight? The stock?

That's the part that bugs me. What if it was a carbine and they "replaced" the barrel with what they could? 24110. The bolt is early. Very. The sight, if it helps, was lugged. Going from memory. The sight is in a box as I didn't expect it and didn't need it. I'll use it in the end. I expected it to arrive with a rifle sight. Nope.

Oddity guns. An obviously crudely made barrel on a Magazine Rifle. That or a Cadet. That or? Who knows. I bought it to convert it to a cadet. Then it arrived and it started bugging me. It still bugs me.

Just to make it more odd it had the longer M-1896 carbine stock.

When I get to the point where I'm ready to screw the mock cadets together I'm going to look at that thing again. If it still bugs me I might make it stop by spinning that barrel off or just put it back to the way it arrived and leave it be.

I doubt it started life as a carbine. I don't think somebody made themselves a carbine as the only part they were missing was the barrel. Yet they had a stock and sight? Odd. Very odd.

[Dick Hosmer]

Only mulling this on a very preliminary basis - but about what would a cadet stock run me, if you are having more than one run?

Are you plowing fresh ground or just getting one of the established wood companies to omit the butt swivel cut on their normal 1896, then whittling the rest yourself? Not that hard to rout a rod groove, inlet the band spring, and slim the wrist.

[5MadFarmers]

The topic today at work was "false choices." Spent all day pointing them out. "Do you want Apple or Blueberry?" Both. Then I don't have to decide. Might as well toss a piece of Pumpkin pie on the plate as well.

The only thing that disturbs me is the template. The cost doesn't bug me, don't even really know what it will be, but the template does. It's an established stock maker. If I send the stock from 21??? they can use that as a template. So temporarily fill the swivel inlet and off to the races. Well, that one has those unique shark bites so those too for this. What if it comes back all scratched up? Broken in two? They're a bit delicate. That is the reason I've not proceeded yet. I figured time was on my side. Laser measurements and then out comes stocks. If they do mechanical template it'll be close enough. Then again I'm not a real picky person.

I also want them to template the Chaffee-Reece. Which, again, means sending an original. A very nice original. I'd not get the magazine bits drilled in but that's not the point. The point is the amusement factor. After getting it back it's slice and sand to carbine profile. Transplanted trapdoor bits give me a CR carbine. "They never made such a thing!" Exactly. Hard to fake what never existed. :)

I guess it's time. It's been three years. Time to get back to them and work it out. It'll be another month though - I'm busy with other stuff.

What's it going to cost? I have no idea. I don't know that I care as long as it's not insane. Figure out what a normal stock would cost and do the 3X thing as they're custom. "Expensive." Price to get them done. It'd take me too long to whittle them and if I tried I'd end up with wood chips having discovered there wasn't a stock inside that chunk of wood.

I'll get the price.

[Mark Daiute]

Mock Cadet? What about a Mook Cadet?

[5MadFarmers]

Mock Cadet? What about a Mook Cadet?

That I could have by tonight. Grab one of the unaltered M-1892s and fill in the swivel holes. Drill and cut the band spring slots and hole. Install bands and slide on M-1899 barrel band. Done. If one of the M-1892s, unaltered, was 18K material it'd be perfect.

"Nice gun. I wonder who made it?"

They're M-1896 Cadets. Not M-1892 Cadets. Those that don't understand Models simply won't grasp that completely.

"250 Springfield carbines altered from model 1877 to model 1884." That I get.
"2800 magazine rifles, model 1892, altered to model 1892, second pattern." That too.
"3994 Colt's revolvers altered from model 1892 to model 1894." That also.

Models, models, models.