View Full Version : 1903 A4 that's been offered to me...
This rifle was bought by Colonel Bill Mook, who was a Major at the time, long ago from Anniston along with another such rifle. The paperwork on it is included here in the photos.
So what do you guys think?
Just how much wampum is such an interesting item worth today? My buddy say's that he turned down $3,500.00 for it long ago.
I'm just wondering what sort of investment this would be for me. Of course I'll try to get it for as little as possible. After all, friendship goes only so far. So, I'd like to know just what such an item might be worth today. You experts out there will have an idea.
The rifle is at the bottom in the 1st photo.
Thanks,
Fred
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Also. here are Two of the last run of rifles made of this type for the FBI (I'm not sure what specific model of 1903's these are, but you guys will know) that were assembled at Springfield Armory. There were 29 rifles in that last run. No more of this type were ever made after that. I believe that all 29 went to The Department Of Justice. That meant the F.B.I.
So, these two rifles were used by the FBI. That's all that I know of them or that type.
My buddy has offered each to me for $2,000.00.
A note of interest... My army buddy, a retired Sergeant Major living in Missouri who I've known for 34 years, used to sit on his grand uncle's knee while the old soldier would tell him stories of when he was in World War II.
My buddy's uncle was General Omar Bradley.
I would've enjoyed hearing those stories.
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Regarding the A4:
Like to see one more of the pistol grip close up of the "P" proof mark.
Does the stock appear to have been broken at the grip and repaired?
Is there a punch mark on the barrel at 6 o'clock under the cuts for the front sight base.
Over all an interesting piece and a nice example.
#1 I'm not in possession of the rifle. It's a 3 1/2 hour drive to take another photo.
#2 The stock has not been broken.
#3 See #1 above.
Looks nice Fred and great pictures. Appears to be about unissued but being a Remington isn't the bolt supposed to be blued or is the A4 the exception?
I don't know anything about this type, so I'm just learning here. I'll call my buddy and ask him about these questions. Thanks Allen.
Fred, AA on stock seems to indicate Augusta Arsenal and the P no circle is usually a rebuild proof. The barrel looks like it had a front sight base on it at one time. My original barreled A4 has no such marks. You need to find out if there is a punch mark @ 6'oclock. A4's were originally barreled with barrels that so marked to indicate that they did not need to be straightened. You also need to lift the bolt handle to determine if its a Remington A4 Bolt cut. Most of the Z prefix A4s I've seen were in scant stocks. All said, A very nice rifle.
I'll call my buddy up and ask him those questions, then I'll answer them for you. Thanks!!
OK, I've left a phone message for him about those questions.
Your rifle should have two "P" proofs on the grip - One in a 7/16" circular surround (Remington plant) and one in a square surround or without a surround(Augusta). It looks to me like there may be a trace of a square but its hard to tell from the pics.
As far as the punch mark on the barrel is concerned we know (since at least 1947 - see Sharp "The Rifle in America") that A4 barrels were selected to meet the uniformity of the final ream dimension. This was how Remington decided it would meet the governments accuracy criteria. The first I have heard of the barrel straightening assertion was an internet post from about a week ago. I have dozens of pics of A4's with the punch. Rifles with out it most likely have a replacement barrel although the date could be right in some cases.
m1903rifle
06-07-2016, 02:37
Looks like a very nice re-built A4. I agree with an earlier post that the rifle would have originally had a scant stock. The stock is genuine and was probably installed at rebuild ( and the bolt would have been parkerized at the same time ). The barrel finish looks correct to me.
m1903rifle
06-07-2016, 02:39
P.S................I think the rifle is worth the $3500.00. The scope and rings sometimes bring over $1000.00.
P.S................I think the rifle is worth the $3500.00. The scope and rings sometimes bring over $1000.00.
Thank you Very Much for your knowlegeable feedback and estimation of value! I'm going to go onto Gunbroker too and see what such rifles are being priced at.
Thanks to everyone else too for sharing your knowledge!
Although the rifle is exceptional, I think that I'm going to keep looking for another gun I've been wanting. So the rifle is up for grabs by anyone who'd be willing to come to a deal with the owner.
cplnorton
06-07-2016, 08:01
Also. here are Two of the last run of rifles made of this type for the FBI (I'm not sure what specific model of 1903's these are, but you guys will know) that were assembled at Springfield Armory. There were 29 rifles in that last run. No more of this type were ever made after that. I believe that all 29 went to The Department Of Justice. That meant the F.B.I.
So, these two rifles were used by the FBI. That's all that I know of them or that type.
My buddy has offered each to me for $2,000.00.
And interesting thing my friend found at the archives. At the strart of WWII, the Marines were in desperate need for 1903 rifles. The FBI offered to give the Marines all their 1903 rifles, as well as all the ammo they had to go along with them. I want to say off the top of head, they had 400 rifles they offered to the Marines, but that number could be wrong. I'm just going by my memory of what the document said. I'm too lazy to find it again, to confirm it. :)
But it's unclear if it ever did happen, but the offer was made by at least by the FBI. I think the document said many were in need of rebuilt as well, but I'm fuzzy on that.
I sort of figured maybe Walter Walsh might have played a hand in that since he was a big name FBI agent and also a Marine. But I don't know that for sure. It just seemed neat to me that the FBI offered up all their 1903's to the Marine Corps.
Fred, AA on stock seems to indicate Augusta Arsenal and the P no circle is usually a rebuild proof. The barrel looks like it had a front sight base on it at one time. My original barreled A4 has no such marks. You need to find out if there is a punch mark @ 6'oclock. A4's were originally barreled with barrels that so marked to indicate that they did not need to be straightened. You also need to lift the bolt handle to determine if its a Remington A4 Bolt cut. Most of the Z prefix A4s I've seen were in scant stocks. All said, A very nice rifle.
OK, My buddy George "Chips" Hensel called me earlier tonight and said that the punch under the front sight cut on the barrel is indeed there. He said that he'd never noticed it before and that he didn't know of its significance. He said that the rifle is all correct, bolt cut and all. Bill Mook knew that the rifle was all correct too.
George says that he'd bought the other 1903A4 from Bill as well and that he sold it over twenty years ago for an amount that he can't recall.
Your rifle should have two "P" proofs on the grip - One in a 7/16" circular surround (Remington plant) and one in a square surround or without a surround(Augusta). It looks to me like there may be a trace of a square but its hard to tell from the pics.
As far as the punch mark on the barrel is concerned we know (since at least 1947 - see Sharp "The Rifle in America") that A4 barrels were selected to meet the uniformity of the final ream dimension. This was how Remington decided it would meet the governments accuracy criteria. The first I have heard of the barrel straightening assertion was an internet post from about a week ago. I have dozens of pics of A4's with the punch. Rifles with out it most likely have a replacement barrel although the date could be right in some cases.
Thank you for the information!
Fred, AA on stock seems to indicate Augusta Arsenal and the P no circle is usually a rebuild proof. The barrel looks like it had a front sight base on it at one time. My original barreled A4 has no such marks. You need to find out if there is a punch mark @ 6'oclock. A4's were originally barreled with barrels that so marked to indicate that they did not need to be straightened. You also need to lift the bolt handle to determine if its a Remington A4 Bolt cut. Most of the Z prefix A4s I've seen were in scant stocks. All said, A very nice rifle.
Thanks cnjcomp!
An interesting thing my friend found at the archives. At the strart of WWII, the Marines were in desperate need for 1903 rifles. The FBI offered to give the Marines all their 1903 rifles, as well as all the ammo they had to go along with them. I want to say off the top of head, they had 400 rifles they offered to the Marines, but that number could be wrong. I'm just going by my memory of what the document said. I'm too lazy to find it again, to confirm it. :)
But it's unclear if it ever did happen, but the offer was made by at least by the FBI. I think the document said many were in need of rebuilt as well, but I'm fuzzy on that.
I sort of figured maybe Walter Walsh might have played a hand in that since he was a big name FBI agent and also a Marine. But I don't know that for sure. It just seemed neat to me that the FBI offered up all their 1903's to the Marine Corps.
Thanks Steve!
My buddy George is wanting to sell this rifle along with all of his other rifles, so since I'm not buying it, I'm just going to put his phone number down here and anyone who's interested in it can call him up.
His telephone number is 816-436-1413.
He doesn't know how to go about shipping a rifle so I might have to go to Kansas City and box it up for him really good like I've always done for other rifles in the past and ship it out via UPS to whoever buys it.
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