My first Arisaka, Kokura Type 99

[artyldr01]

Good afternoon,

I stumbled on a Type 99 at a local pawn shop for $200. I will admit my knowledge of japanese weapons is slim at best. Normally I would go, do a ton of research then make my purchas decision but I figured $200 isn't bad even if it isn't perfect. Here is what I can tell you so far and the few photos i was able to take at the shop, I apologize they aren't better, I'll post more when I pick it up next week. I plan to purchase the book "Military Rifles of Japan" very soon and get smart but in the interim your knowledge is appreciated!

1. No Anti-Aircraft wings but same type of sight
2. Has front sight protectors
3. No dust cover
4. Monopod mount/band but no monopod
5. Earlier knurled cocking piece / bolt handle etc.
6. Mum mostly ground off but you can still see a few petals.
7. I believe Kokura Arsenal
8. I cannot identify the symbol before the SN (45194) to determine block. It looks like a v-tail swallow but I don't recognize that mark in my research. I understand Kokura to be block 20-25?
9. Good rifling but dirty.
10. Metal buttplate
11. Stock finish seems pretty nice by military standards, though perhaps sanded and refinished I now realize (I hope not...)

I didn't see serial numbers at the bayonet lug and bolt handle but i really didn't look that close.

Again, I figured it wasn't too bad of a deal. Also, any help dating and determining "originality" by which I mean, I understand at some point that the anti-aircraft wings, dust cover and monopod were no longer built into the weapon, is this likely in that window rather than pieces that were discarded by the Soldier? Either way I don't really care, I have "rescued" another rifle needing a good home... and found yet another rabbit hole for the collection!

Thank you in advance for your help!

[Guamsst]

Serial number on bolt will be at the base of the handle underneath. Just open the bolt and look under the handle.

The Japanese deleted the monopod and AA sights before they used up all the mounts. Thus, some came from the factory with the option for AA sights and monopod, but without them mounted. You probably have a mid war rifle and it maybe correct.

The mum is ground. There is no such thing as a mostly there, partially ground or lightly ground mum. If it has one line through it, it has a ground mum. Intact mums are worth about 10%. There is a ton of emphasis on mums by non collectors who think they will get a fortune if two petals of the mum are visible. It just doesn't work that way.

The finish on your rifle could be correct. Look for sharp edges on the top of the stock by the receiver. If the edges are rounded, it has been sanded. Factory finish on most Arisakas was glossy. Color ranged from burgundy or RED to light tan or yellow.

If you can post a good photo of the series mark (symbol before serial number) I can probably figure it out.

For $200 you did great.

[dave]

Close-up of front band and stock immediately to rear may reveal if monopod was ever on the rifle.

[artyldr01]

Thank you very much. I will definitely take better photos of the markings and whole rifle next week when I pick it up. I was thinking that, as with most arsenals, they used up the parts on hand before going to the new (non-monopod) bands but I also understand they were discareded by Soldiers often. I usually have a pretty good eye for messed with stocks and this one looked pretty straight to me compared to what I typically see when stocks are messed with.

I appreciate the education on the "mum." I know some people consider it the end-all, be-all but I don't really care. I tend to prefer the more dinged up, used "average" looking weapons as they, at least to me, indicate a typical service life. I don't want pristine warehouse queens.



Dave, I will definitely look for wear indicators or other signs that it may have been there at one time, I didn't think of that.

Again, thank you very much!

[psteinmayer]

Even if the bolt number (last three of the serial) doesn't match the serial number, don't despair... Many Arisakas came back with mixed parts because they were disassembled and bolts (and other parts) were tossed in a bucket. Once back in the states, they were reassembled with no regard to which bolt came from which rifle. Also, Arisakas have the serial number on just about every part on the gun. The safety knob, firing pin, etc. Even if it doesn't match, you have a great looking 99 that should be fun to shoot! Take her to Perry and shoot her in the Vintage!

I'm lucky in that both of my Type 99s are all matching, one with the mum, one ground and sporterized.

[dave]

I am not aware that they have serials on "just about every part". I have owned several over the years and have 6 now. None of the ones I have now have such and I do not remember that any of the others did. One type 99 I now have has 'assembly' numbers on several parts, only bolt and action have the serial along with the assembly number.
I only have one with a mum, a 38 carbine which of course would have been easy to bring or send home without going thru the grinding of captured rifles after the surrender. I have seen several of these with intact mums!3604536046 Pictures of my small collection. (top only in pic #1).

[psteinmayer]

I'll have to go and check to be sure or remaining locations... but I'm positive that my Toyo Kogyo 31 and Nagoya 7 both have the matching numbers on the bolt handle, safety knob, firing pin, extractor, and (I think) trigger guard. My Toyo also has the number on the action cover too (Nagoya doesn't have the cover - lost when sporterized).

[artyldr01]

Great collection! I like your Swedes. I have one myself, 1913 Carl Gustav M96...gorgeous!

I will say on my cursory look over of this rifle I did not see much numbering. I have a collection of other types of rifles, Mosins, Mausers, Enfields, US, etc, and it seems every country is prolific in marking, except towards their impending defeats (speaking to you Germany and Japan). I will definitely do a throughough look over and photography when I get it.

This of course will be the "gateway drug" to more Japanese weapons...amazing how that happens. I never used to want anything but US but now I find foreign weapons more interesting. I seem to show up late to the party though and am paying more for it. Gone are the sub-$100 Mosins/Enfields/M1 carbines etc...."sigh."

I can't wait to share the photos and info on this T99 and see what everyone thinks when I have better photos.

[Guamsst]

There is almost no consistency to "jap rifles". Even within a series rifles can be completely different. Some early rifles were heavily numbered. Late ones usually had the action numbered well but may or may not have other parts numbered. Even the late last ditch though generally have all bolt parts numbered except the main spring.

[artyldr01]

This is fairly typical with military weapons. That is why I never say "never" or "always!"

[dave]

For what its worth, keeping in mind books are never written in stone. "Until the 1930's parts were numbered with Assembly numbers of 1 to 3 digits. During the 1930's aresnals begin using last three digits of serial number to SOME parts, while others continued to be numbered to match a separate assembly number. After about 1940 the serial was used exclusively for matching numbered parts." Japanese Rifles of WW11" Duncan McCollum. A very basic beginners book, I know, so don't jump all over me!
My 99 Long is matched by serial, these were made in 1939.
38 Carbine # 42453, 5 series, is a m/m but has an assemb. #171 (barrel & rec.), bolt, safety, firing pin, floorplate are #453. Stock, handguard, dust cover are all numbered m/m.
Series 33 Toyo Kogya is matched by serial # but only bolt & rec. And it has many of early features which it 'should not', perhaps because of low # 5030.
Series 30 #41321 (1940-41) is matched by assemb. number 696 on rec., bolt & safety, bayo lug. No other numbers altho I did not take bolt apart.
44 Carbine # 57489. A m/m rifle but following have serials; bolt, renumber to 489, T.G, trigger, bolt release, some sight parts, fire pin, safty (match), upper lower tang.
Type 38 long 64241. Series 27. Rec. Assemb. #248. Safety, bayo lug, floorplate serial matched. two other small parts are m/m.
By the way, the so called 'series numbers' is a collectors term, never used by the Japanese. The numbers came about by the way the symbols are arranged in a Japanese poem (or something like that).

[Guamsst]

......Japanese Rifles of WW11" Duncan McCollum. A very basic beginners book, I know, so don't jump all over me! .......

There is nothing basic about that book. It covers everything you need to know in a well thought out and easy to follow way. I think Honeycutts book is coffee table junk compared to McCollums. Sure, the big red book is pretty and has lots of pictures. It even has some info that you can't find elsewhere. That info is generally useless to the average collector. The bulk of the info is basically "Look at these guns someone showed me". I "Lucked out" and found a copy of the beg red book for $40 when I started collecting. Later on I paid $20 (full retail) for McCollums book and was pissed that I wasted money on Honeycutts. McCollums book is my go to and I use it about 15 times as often as the big red coffee table book.

[artyldr01]

Awesome info. Thank you. I have McCollum's book enroute. I saw a copy of Honeycutt's book and it looks good and I will get it eventually I am sure, but it sounds like McCollum's is perfect for my needs right now. BTW, I found a link to Honeycutt's website where it is still offering the book for $45. Anyone know if that is a live, accurate link?

[dave]

McCollum's book is he only one I have, as I am not a primarily a jap rifle collector. I got it cause it was cheap and its all I needed. As for the "basic, beginners" remark I was repeating what I have read on another site where the "experts" hang out. Glad to hear different!

[Guamsst]

McCollum's book is he only one I have, as I am not a primarily a jap rifle collector. I got it cause it was cheap and its all I needed. As for the "basic, beginners" remark I was repeating what I have read on another site where the "experts" hang out. Glad to hear different!

You are absolutely correct. If you aren't looking to buy exotic experimental Japanese rifles, then that is all you need. Even the average diehard Arisaka collector is unlikely to actually need more than that book.

Those "experts" apparently care if the inspection stamp was turned slightly counterclockwise the week Hiroki San had the flu and his left handed replacement was working. Honeycutts book has been the standby for years, simply because it was the standby for years. I only use it for the pages at the front with some of the more obscure marks. It has great info on some super rare weapons and devices.....that most of us will never see. It isn't very user friendly and is too in depth on the things most will never have access to. McCollums book sticks almost strictly to the weapons of war used during WW2 and is easy to follow.

So, if you want to sit around talking about the different variations of pressure test rifle inspection stamps, get Honeycutts book. If you want to quickly and easily identify if a series 7 rifle has the correct parts on it, get McCollums book.

[artyldr01]

Awesome! I get the rifle and McCollum's book tomorrow! I can't wait.

[JimF]

I have both Honeycutt and McCollum . . . .

Like 'em both, but Honeycutt edges McCollum out! --Jim

[artyldr01]

Sorry for the delay. Here are the latest photos. I'm really not sure about the stock. I've seen a few lately that are similar finish, I think.

[artyldr01]

and a few more. The cleaning rod was apparently broken. :( I am still pretty pleased.

I am now looking at a "Last Ditch" Kokura at a different place. They are asking $299. It looks much better as in correct than this one does I think.

[artyldr01]

Here are some of the last ditch...

[artyldr01]

and more...

[psteinmayer]

I guess I should read the posts BEFORE I look at the pictures, LOL. I was looking at the pics of the first, and then wondering why your pretty nice looking rifle all of a sudden had a last ditch rear sight... Haahaa.

The first is very nice. Monopods and Action Covers (both original and reproduction) are available. Cleaning rods also.

The last ditch is definitely Last Ditch! Still, it's not too bad, as they have their place in history too.

[Guamsst]

Personally, I prefer the last ditch to the early rifles. I have a MINT Type99 long and an early 99 with monopod and an entire squads nicely embossed signatures on the stock as well as a few others that are very nice. They will all go before my ropehole 99.

The early rifles bore me. There is no variation. Last ditch have many variations. Then there are transitional rifles and even rifles with multiple variations in a single series.