Oregon Prison 97's and 94's

[hyrax222]

Here is a list of firearms I received with my Winchester 97 trench in the early 1990"s. Twenty eight 97's and 10 Winchester 94's. My shotgun came with a Win. 1895 long bayonet no scabbard. Bayonet adapter notched for this bayonet. No US marks on shotgun. I didn't see any of the other firearms to know condition or markings.

Thought some here might like this information.361193612036121

[scosgt]

That is awesome. Those are COMMERCIAL trench guns, no markings.
Does yours have the brass buttplate?

[SPEEDGUNNER]

Oh my, this list is illuminating...any more detail as to origin of the guns?

Does your 97 have a rack number by any chance? Right side of receiver in front of ejection port?

Does your buttplate look like this?

https://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47b7cf31b3127ccec2c0cc015f5e00000010O00EZtGzNq4cMQ e3nws/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00108853604320071110180608091.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D720/ry%3D480/

And your adaptor like this?

https://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47b7cf31b3127ccec2c0c3581f9800000010O00EZtGzNq4cMQ e3nws/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00108853604320071110181439976.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D720/ry%3D480/

[Tom Doniphon]

hyrax222, thanks for posting that info. Your 97 is from 1934.

About half of the 97s on the list were made in 1932. The rest in 1934.

Is the bayonet adaptor on your shotgun marked?

[SPEEDGUNNER]

Canfield discusses these interesting variations on Pages 70 and 71 in his fine book "Complete Guide to United States Military Combat Shotguns". Your list of serial numbers falls in with a number of these commercial trench shotguns I have observed here on the East Coast. Coincidentally, there was just one that sold at Amoskeag, and I am sorry I missed it. The auction listing is here:

http://www.amoskeagauction.com/110/79.php

What makes this shotgun intriguing is the rack number on this shotgun is "51" and is in an identical font to the others I have observed. The serial number is much lower than the others I observed. The serial number serial number 843033 and the auction states manufactured in 1936, I think they determined that by serial records. Of the others, the lowest rack number I have seen is "3", with the others being "25" and "34". Barrel dates were all in the 20's and 30's. ALL exhibited the brass Winchester buttplate and the bayonet lug to accommodate the 1895 bayonet. The serial numbers all fall into the range of the ones detailed on your lists, in fact they are very close. They all had 21" CYL barrels with the filled front sight bead hole. According to published serial records, (we know they can sometimes be off) they would all be 1942 production, so why the earlier barrel dates?

Here is the data on the 3:

Serial______Rack # ____Barrel date

878661________3_________28

885513________34________could not see

885637________25________34

Obviously they were not being inventoried in serial or chronological order, but rather as received. I would love to know how your shotgun is marked, and if you have seen any others with similar markings to yours. Is the rack marking on your shotgun similar to the one that sold at Amoskeag?

Certainly an interesting and seldom seen variation that is worthy of more study. I would love to know how many shotguns were produced in this configuration, and where they were sold.

[Tom Doniphon]

878661 was serialized in 1932. The other two guns were serialized in 1934.

[Keydet92]

SpeedGunner,

It sounds like Amoskeag was using the old printed estimates found around the web, including the current Winchester site, for their 1936 date. The gun they sold was actually from 1928. The best source for Winchester serial number records is the Winchester Arms Collectors Assoc, they've digitized the records from the Winchester proof house and finishing house here: http://winchestercollector.org/dates/
It's the same information used by the Cody Firearms Museum for Winchester letters.

[SPEEDGUNNER]

I am guessing the Amoskeag 97 is earlier. So Winchester obviously continued production of this model for a period of time through the late 20's and into the 30's. Yet, until Canfield's book came out in 2007 there was never a mention of them.

[Keydet92]

1928 per post #7

[scosgt]

Most of the 97 serial number info you find around is based on Maadis book, and it is just plain wrong.

[scosgt]

After the end of WWI Winchester still had some M1917 bayonets on hand. They were sold with guns or on their own. They are marked with the circle W and no date or military markings.
When they ran out of these leftover units from WWI, they had a stock of the 1895 Russian Musket bayonets on hand (as I recall, the order for the muskets was cancelled in the chaos of the Russian Revolution).
Rather than re-starting the bayonet line, they made the cut in the adapters and sold the musket bayonet with the gun.
They can be rather hard to find.

[hyrax222]

Plastic butt-plate. Yes bayonet lug looks like that.

[hyrax222]

I will have to check for marks on lug...

[hyrax222]

No rack no.

[SPEEDGUNNER]

So we have guns in the same serial range showing up in quantity on both the east and west coasts. So Winchester obviously made more than a few of these. Wouldn't it be interesting to get the factory order information, to see who were the buyers?

[scosgt]

They are pretty rare and some folks simply do not believe the brass buttplates.
Too bad for them.

[hyrax222]

I have been seeking a brass buttplate for years. Never found one...